Zeitgeist, The First Part

[tkcomer]

Not sure if this is the right spot, but did anyone watch the first part of Zeitgeist? The part on religion? Is any of that true? Is the bible really a copy of earlier pagan religions? That part kinda disturbed me. If what they speak is true, Christ never walked the earth. That story was plagiarized from earlier pagan religions. And that religion is a story used to control people. I know nothing about other early religions. Heck, I know very little about other religions at all.

[ponto]

There are always two or more versions of a story.

Use what knowledge your brain can comprehend, but always listen to your heart. It is the source of your survival and salvation.

[tkcomer]

My trouble is I don't know enough about the early religions to know if what they say is true. I do know that it is amazing what early man knew. Some of the astrology parts they figured out is mind boggling. But then they mix astrology with the Bible. In a way, it makes sense. But then again, a good magician can fool a lot of people.

[TheMan]

Next time I see you I will share with you what I learned from my research...

[wmjsmallwood]

if the first part disturbed you ,then the rest of it will surley make you think think !!,it all scares me to think our goverment really has the power to to these things ,wire tapping,no warrant searches,no guns,a little at a time till we have no way to fight back,heck, they even can put who they want for president in!!and oil prices,all this technogoly,and we at one time had cars which run on water,i think we are being hearded like cattle,our kids only being taugh to take tests,,usa,,it dont mean what it used to thats for sure (make no mistake,i am prould of our men and women fighting for what they believe to be a good cause)but look at us as a whole ,we the people have lost control of our own goverment ,thats scary!!

[Brian K Beckett]

Loks like Rebel yell has sparked some interest in this film.
I havent seen the first part of this film yet. I dont know what it is saying, but from what you are describing it sounds like they are talking about religions copy each other from an ancient relegion. It has been years since I have studied religion and i dont remember everything that i have learned but I do know that Judesiam and Christianity were not the first religion. Pagan relegion by definition means basically a relegion that is not popular by large groups. I am going to go out on a limb and guess in the film they take PAGAN to mean astroligy or worshiping of many Gods (ie sun, water, moon). which had a lot to do with astroligy. Pagan religion was on every continent of the world before Judeism or Christianity.
Even Islam is modeled after Christianity. The Virgin birth and Jesus are often spoken of in the Koran.
I dont know if it is used to control people but it does most religions all seem to have their Holy Days about the same time as each other. Ramadon (Islam) Hanika (Jewish) Christmas (Christian) even a late religion started in the 60s (Quanza) are all around the same time as (Solstice) a Pagan holiday.

[tkcomer]

They go into a lot of detail on the pagan religions. The virgin birth, born on December 25, 12 followers, teacher at 12, preaching at 30, son of God, sold out by a friend, resurrected on the third day, etc. These were supposedly recorded thousands of years before Christianity. Some of the symbols used in Christianity were taken directly from the pagan religions. The astrology part is beyond my learning. 12 zodiac signs=12 disciples. The center of the zodiac chart is the sun=the son of God. Since these other religions were based on mythology, the claim is Christianity is too. They don't claim that there is no God, their claim is, there was no Christ as the bible was copied from other religions. Therefore, the bible is false.

[Brian K Beckett]

I dont know for shure that it was copied from pagan relegions but there are a lot of simularities. I know its scientific fact that paganism came before Christianity or Judesiem. As for the Bible being false and Jesus never walking the earth I honesty dont know. I guess thats why they call it "FAITH".
Relegion can be debated several ways. So I will not get into a religious debate because its not one that ever ends.

[tkcomer]

The similarities are what's throwing me off. The same stuff recorded thousands of years before the bible? That's the part I don't know if it's true or not. If it is true, that pretty much wrecks the bible.

[Brian K Beckett]

TK I dont know if it was copied but yes there are a lot of simularities. And no Judesim and Christianity were not the first religions of man. Now does that wreck the Bible? I dont know. It just depends on what you want to believe.
I can only give you my oppinion on relegion. Relegion just as drugs, internet, And even fire can be used in positive ways and negitive ways. And yes I do believe people use it in both positive and negative ways. Its like to old saying on optimism (Is the glass half full, or half empty)??? I am just one of those people that like to ask before i answer, Are you filling the glass up, or drinking from it?

if the first part disturbed you ,then the rest of it will surley make you think think !!,it all scares me to think our goverment really has the power to to these things ,wire tapping,no warrant searches,no guns,a little at a time till we have no way to fight back,heck, they even can put who they want for president in!!and oil prices,all this technogoly,and we at one time had cars which run on water,i think we are being hearded like cattle,our kids only being taugh to take tests,,usa,,it dont mean what it used to thats for sure (make no mistake,i am prould of our men and women fighting for what they believe to be a good cause)but look at us as a whole ,we the people have lost control of our own goverment ,thats scary!!



Absolutly positivly 100% correct!!! Educatational standards used to be set by communities. Now Educational standards are set in place by small think tank groups. The two most important thing that should be taught to kids in schools are first and for most The Constitution of the United States. Did you know it is only required to be taught one day a year.
http://www.usconstitution.net/constteach.html
I think the constitution should be taught in many grades of school especially High School and definatly more then one day a year.
The second thing that should be covered the same way is the money monopoly and how money works and how to manage it. I know its covered but not very good.
Both of these thing are far more important in a free education then any form of technoligy that is taught.

[tkcomer]

I do remember taking civics in high school, but I can't remember if it was a required course. If it was, my generation forgot everything it learned in that class. These idiots wouldn't get into office in the first place if we remembered what we learned. As far as history goes, American history was all we learned. And it was watered down. Of course, as a kid, I could care less. As I got older, the more interested I became. And the more I became alarmed at what our government was really up to. Now I'm wondering about religion. Could everything be a lie?

[wmjsmallwood]

well i think ,if you use common sense,and the facts ,you can come to the truth pretty easy!!!!!!no matter what the goverent says the facts are just plain truth ,even if they twist and turn them around ,,it's like horse trading kinda ;tell all the good things and have a reason for the bad ,just my opinion!!,,,,,,,,,ohh and i agree with the leap of faith ,but not when it applies to our goverment that we used to be able to control

[Brian K Beckett]

Next time I see you I will share with you what I learned from my research...



I would like to here what you have learned also!!!

[Foxy]

I say we all get together at Foxy's Den and the Dragon's Lair and have a religious discussion... with out fear of repercussion or execution... let me know!!
TheMan will be there.. you are all invited...

[Brian K Beckett]

When

[acoolmom777]

Just think…if we all agreed on Religion, Political views and our Environment ….we would have a very boring existence…

[Foxy]

Sat night? Acoolmom.. you comin'??? Saber, TheMan? You up for it?

[acoolmom777]

Sat night? Acoolmom.. you comin'??? Saber, TheMan? You up for it?


I wish...I have been doing 1st and 2nd shift for 5 months now.....I have no life...lol

[Brian K Beckett]

I got my DVD and just watched it. WOW! I am starting to think maybe its lke what Jack Nicholson said in that one movie. "You think you want the TRUTH? Well you cant handle the TRUTH!!!
I cant say that everything in this film is 100% accurate but I know by documented evidence that I have researched that about 90% of it is true.
I will be making copies for anyone that wants one for FREE so PM me and let me know if you want a copy. According to the makers of this film you are allowed to copy it but not sell it.

[Bengals_Mama]

Actually earlier Jews, and still some today consider Christians Pagans. So some of it may have to do with that belief. To them those of us who worship this "man" Jesus are no better than those who worship other Gods. For me, Christianity is all about having Faith- belief in things unseen. I can't speak for everyone, but when you get that overwhelming feeling of being "Blessed" there's just no other excuse for it. If it is wrong, then I don't want to be right!

[Brian K Beckett]

TK or whoever is interested I have been trying to find a Christian site that offers an explanation to the Christian/Pagan myth. I did have a problem finding one but I did finally come up with one. Judge for your self you have seen the film and now you can see the other side of the story. And thanks Bengals Mamma for adding some insight into this subject.

http://www.comereason.org/soc_culture/soc030.asp


Now having said that I would like to state that eventhough I am not religious I would never condem or harass anyone for being religious or any religion unless it gets to the point that a person turns to religious extreemism. I would also like to state a miss conception that just because a person is not religious or does not have a God or Gods in their life that they are incapable of being a good person or doing good things. That is completly false!!!

[acoolmom777]

This is my opinion and in the short version…”Christian/Pagan myth”. They existed together until the Christians wanted to be the first and for most of the two, and boom witchcraft was born. Now don’t get me wrong I am Christian/Other…I believe in Jesus Christ, the Alpha and the Omega, but he is the creator of all, therefore I believe we should appreciate and respect the elements of this earth just as much as anything else.
But in the long run…who cares…”your” faith is just that…yours……

[Chuck]

Lightning strikes that cause large fires are nature way of cleansing the earth. The food chain and disease is natures way of controlling the population of living species from the Earth. Almost every Natural event has a Natural reason for happening. It is the planets way of caring for itself.

Religion generally give a reason for Man to back door this process. While I choose to believe in God and religion I also believe in all of the religions stated above. Would take to long to explain why.

We as man have found many ways to worship God in many different styles and book. It seams to me that every religious belief spends most of its time trying to prove other religions wrong. They do this while each of their Bibles for the different religions tell basically the same Old Testament stories. This is based on the majority of Bibles available.

What happen 2000 years ago that changed? Since then there have been no more stories biblically related. For 1000's of years before that their where no major break through in technologies or mechanical designs.

Look at what has happened only 1000 years since 0 BC/AD. Then Look at what happened in another 1000 years since then. Does anyone besides me find this simply amazing?

Over the last 2000 Years we have had several Prophets that are proclaimed of god. Jesus, Mohammad, Buddha, Joesph Smith, etc...

All I am saying is that the basic belief is the same. We all have our God and He/She might be the same one. Shouldn't we do God's work and try to work and play well together.

[tkcomer]

Most of the talk here only goes back about 2000 years. When Christ walked the earth. There is ample evidence of Christianity trying to include other faiths, beliefs and their customs. Isn't all saints day/Halloween one of them? What the film talks about goes back much further than that. Before the old testament was written. The similarities between the "pagan" religions and the testaments are unbelievable if true. And that's that part I don't know. The pagan religions were based on mythology, so they say. No historical documents can prove what they say is true. But if what they say is true, the bible was copied directly from pagan religions, and therefore is false. And the main reason was to control mankind. No "Son of God" was involved. "He" was a myth used to control the people.

[Brian K Beckett]

http://www.comereason.org/cmp_rlgn/cmp070.asp

TK Here is another link to the same site as above. This link takes you to a different page that might give you some more answers.

I wish I could answer your questions for you. I would like to see some one of religion give some input. I dont have all the answeres. I dont think anyone would. I dont think that their are any documents from the dawn of man unless you would inclide cave drawings and stone carving as historical documents.


I got to agree with Chuck and Cool Mom and even Bengals Mamma. You just got to have faith. All of these religions basically strive for the same thing for the most part. Peace, acceptance, being kind to each other. Even though some of the parts of most of these religions are violent. If any of them are true and were currupted by man to control people or what ever reason I would think that those would be the violent parts.

I would really like to have a open honest religious discussion on the BBS with out the so called fear of repracution or execution but I dont think people are ready for it.

[ponto]

[

I would really like to have a open honest religious discussion on the BBS with out the so called fear of repercussion or execution but I don't think people are ready for it.

Sure we can do that on the BBS.....Post it under agri news, nobody reads that stuff any way........lol

[drago]

religion has been used as a tool to control people since...well since there has been religion. Christianity did take alot of things from pagan beliefs... start with christmas...jesus if he was born wasn't born on dec 25...that was a holy day for the roman god of the sun... easter was a pagan holiday long before christianity came about....several pagan religions have a god dying then being "reborn" days later...almost every religion has something in it about a great flood...the list goes on and on...now this last one I don't know if it has any basis in fact but I have read somewhere that the old jewish religion had mentions of a goddess but was taken out of thier relgion because they wanted more control over the females in thier society.

[frankie 2 times]

i know for a fact that zeitgeist doesn't get the "virgin birth" of all those guys correct.

one of the guys, krishna i believe, was the 8th or 9th child of his mother.
the "virgin birth" is misrepresented in the movie, although most of the guys they mention were born without sex ... supposedly,
they were not "virgin births", nor are most of them believed to be born on Dec 25th.

as far as the rest of it, it would take much reading.

it is true however that most religions are just re-writes of other religions.

[acoolmom777]

YouTube has part 1-5: approx: 7 hours

[Brian K Beckett]

YouTube has part 1-5: approx: 7 hours

Theirs more??? I thought it was only a 3 part for now with more to come later this year.

[Bengals_Mama]

I was talking with my father-in-law on some of this, he is very Bible smart. He said in fact the Wisemen were Astrologers, and that the Bible was written in the stars before anything else. The points he brought up were very interesting. They also went by ages of the Zodiac, kind of like the Chinese. This age would be the Cancer age. the next is Leo. Wonder if that has anything to do with so much of the cancer going around right now? Anyway, Leo (the lion) many think will be the time when Jesus comes back, since he was out of the tribe of Judah. (I think that's how he put it, may have to ask again!) What he was saying was really interesting, never really gave thought to it until now, but would make a good conversation piece anyway.

[SilverFox]

I have always chosen to believe in the baby Jesus (the Virgin Birth). I think we are living in a society that, in large part, does not follow Christ's teachings, although 82% of Americans profess to be Christians. I do know one thing for sure-it is up to parents to teach their children right from wrong and how to live a moral life. They should instill religious values to be certain, but that does not negate the parent's responsiblity. I have always found comfort in prayer and wish that same comfort for others.
As far as government-our elected representatives only have as much power as we give them. Remember the uproar over amnesty? Our elected officials found out BIG TIME what it meant to totally enrage the citizens. We just need to exercise our power and give voice to our concerns. I can tell you I have written many letters, sent numerous e-mails and faxes to my elected reprs. Let your voice be heard!!!!

[Rebelyell]

Not sure if this is the right spot, but did anyone watch the first part of Zeitgeist? The part on religion? Is any of that true? Is the bible really a copy of earlier pagan religions? That part kinda disturbed me. If what they speak is true, Christ never walked the earth. That story was plagiarized from earlier pagan religions. And that religion is a story used to control people. I know nothing about other early religions. Heck, I know very little about other religions at all.

I said up front that I had some problems with the first part of the movie, particularly since it deals with things that can't be proven or unproven. In fact, it has several factual inaccuracies.

For example, Horus was NOT conceived of a virgin as the film claims, but rather conceived through intercourse with a god that no longer had sexual organs. Now perhaps it would have taken too long to explain this, but still...

From a historical analysis standpoint, whenever a group claims something that goes against its interest, it gives great creedance that that claim is more likely to be true. Certainly the claim that Christ was a manual laborer instead of being of more noble bearing was not something that the early Christians would have liked to have claimed. They would no doubt have liked to inflate his pedigree. So it does lend creedance to the idea that Christ did exist as a real person.

The rest of the film has facts that in many cases can be proven by looking at the historical record. The same can't be said of the film's comments on religion and I really don't agree with many of them. That said, I've always known that the Hebrew Bible did borrow from other religions and that the creation stories that are the Bible are in many cases shared. That doesn't bother me a bit.