Immigration, Let them stay?

[Chuck]

After the public address from Pres. George Bush last week there is much conversation on the topic around town.

What should be done now. Many say it is way to little way to late. The Illegal Immigration problem is not a partisan problem. It has been around for many, many years.

What's your opinion to about the situation.

[Wildcat Fans]

I belive that this is america and that we should accept all peoples we are a true melting pot and this is a great country. But saying that I also cannot support the use of my hardearned tax dollars going to feed cloth and medical care for any person from any country entering this country illegally.
having been in the construction industry for 20 years I have seen many of the trades being taken over by illegals because of business owner greed yes there is a shortage of qualified and reliable people to fill these jobs but the way to assure a good employee base is to pay good wages and benefits not to use unqualified persons just to save a few dollars an hour.

[jacquie]

I Think That Its Not Fair Tosend All The Illegals Back.some Have Families Here.the Thing Is Everybody Says That All Illegals Are On Foodstamps,medicaid,getting Welfare Checks,living Of The Americans That Pay Taxes.thats Not True,not All Live That Way. I Know That There Are Alot More White, Black, Americans That Are Living That Way & Nobody Seems To Care To Stop That.they Keep Having Kids To Get Welfare Checks. The Process To Becoming Legal Is Hard & Cost Alot But Some Do Get Their Papers & Pay Taxes.the Process To Get My Husbands Papers Cost Us Around $4000.00 Plus The Lawyer Fees.we Had To Sign A Government Paper Saying That We Will Not Go On Any Public Assistance While He Is Trying To Get His Green Card.that We Have To Pay All Medical For Him & Our Son. I Think This Should Be Done For All The Illegals That Get Green Cards.my Husband Works Hard & Pays Taxes Even Though He Is Not Of Legal Status Yet. The Irs Keeps His Refund To Pay Back All The Back Taxes That He Owed For Being Here Illegal.its Hard On Us But Thats The Price You Have To Pay To Have Legal Status Here.also He Will Never Get To Be An American Citizen Unless He Keeps A Good Record Here For 8 Years.he Will Only Be Here Legally & Still Can Be Deported If He Breaks Any Of The Rules.so I Agree That They Should Get The Illegals Off Welfare & Foodstamps.but Also Think That Alot Of The Legal Americans Should Be Taken Off The Welfare To.they Complain About Jobs Taken By Illegals Then Get Out There & Help Pick Oranges,strawberries,watermelons,apples.milk The Cows,plant Trees,cut Tobacco, The Farmers Need The Help.take Only $7 Hour For Construction Jobs Not Want $12 Hour.thats Just What I Think....

[TheMan]

If they want to stay.. Fine.. Learn english,, Get a job, Pay taxes, stop waving your country's flag and become a citizen. If you can't do that.. then leave..

[HARLEYDUDE]

What I'ld like to know (and i care none about color or race) is why does it take you such a short time to get to the U S but takes 18 months to send you back ? The **** with the laws just put theirs butts on a bus and send them back as far as i know they have NO RIGHTS ...... We are not going to win this fight as we are truely losing America. WE HAVE NO RIGHTS !!!!!

[tkcomer]

I still say we need to go after the people that hire them. It’s a simple plan that was working in the late 90s. Big fines coupled with jail terms would bring a lot of this to a halt. Or at least slow it down to a crawl. Legal immigration does not bother me. It’s a long process. But illegal? Send ‘em home. Maybe then, they would get rid of their corrupt politicians, instead of our corrupt politicians turning their heads to this problem. But then again, if we got rid of our corrupt politicians, this wouldn’t be a problem.

[kdown]

This is a replay from the mid 80s. We " FIXED " it then........Right. And we ain't gonna fix it this time. A fence is a waste of money. Guest worker program sucks.
There's an old saying, " You can't kill a snake til you cut off its head"
If there were no jobs, they'd quit coming. We gotta crack down on the employers. Let's put some in jail.

[bubbysgarage]

I'm only going to say one thing. I agree with TheMan 500%.

[mark]

Here's my thoughts ( from the political forum )

...............I believe this will solve the immigration issue on the southern border.

Click & read:

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2...321.shtml?s=et

Friends.......we must get control of the southern borders before we can worry about what to do with the illegals running around American currently. I'm not one that approves of pork spending, but this maybe an exception. Or, maybe you see it as an investment.

I see it as an investment. Build a double wide 15' high prison style fence across the WHOLE southern border with a 100 yard "no man's" land on both sides for agents to patrol on. Make it the type of wire virtually impossible to cut with handtools. Build enough guard towers to manually control the fence. If Berlin can have a wall, why not the southern border?
Yes, my friends, all 1500-2000 miles of land.

I'm sure most of the landowners would gladly donate a 150 yard wide strip of land to see this happen. I'm sure they are tired of illegals tearing up their land, destroying their property & who knows what else.

Once that's done, then we get control of the illegals here.

Personally, I'd love to see this happen. I don't want to learn another new language. English is hard enough to get right.

Do you agree with me....or....not?? .............see ya mark

[Chuck]

I agree with an exception, that is we would need to build a wall. Bolt cutters could cost the taxpayers too much in repair.

[mark]

I agree with an exception that is would need to be a wall. Bolt cutters could cost the taxpayers too much in repair.

I originally was going to say put up a wall, however, I figured someone here would think I was going to spend too much money with that idea.

I'd rather have a wall for the same reasons you say...........see ya mark

[kdown]

This could pass in the Senate today

The $20,000 fines for hiring illegal immigrants once the new screening system is in place would be double the present level. Repeated violators could be sentenced to prison terms of up to three years.

[Chuck]

I think the primary problem with existing immigration laws is that the all have to be enforced by on the federal level. The need to delegate some of the enforcement to local agencies.

Local cops can barley detain someone with immigration problems.

[kdown]

Might help providing the Feds supply the $$$ and not put the burden on the state and local authorities.

[TheMan]

Here's another problem.. Altered documentation. There is so much fake stuff out there, the untrained/uneducated can not tell the difference. And with the ACLU and civil liberties in general, the local and state agencies err on the side of cation and do nothing. Another note. INS has been called on SEVERAL illegals and their exact words is that they won't pick them up unless it is a felony offense. Call them on a felony offense and they say they won't pick them up unless it is a serious violent felony offense. So local law enforcement is getting no help on the federal or state level.

[gleroyjr]

Here Is The Best Answer, Dig A Channel The Length Of The Boarder, Send The Dirt To New Orleans To Help Shore Ou The Levees, Fill The Channel With Water And Stock It With Gators.

[kdown]

Leroy you been watching too much of John Gibson on Fox

[kybikertrash]

Hey! That's a good idea. It would also help to relocate the displaced gators in Florida. Then they can stop eating Floridians and if the illegals try to cross the trench the gators can have Mexican for lunch! OLE' LOL

[Jeremy]

My option isn't listed in the poll :( Considering our current President was governor of the state that is most affected by illegal immigrants, Texas, and didn't stop it while he was governor, I don't think he's really qualified to weigh in on the issue now.

I also think that if smugglers can bring in kilos of cocaine to the United States on a regular basis, smuggling humans across, over, under, or around a wall wouldn't be a problem either. Prisons have to be regularly guarded to make sure inmates don't get across those walls and they're covered in layers of razor wire. You need a high wall, covered in razor wire, with motion sensors, and a whole lot of guards monitoring every inch of a hundreds of miles long wall. The cost of maintaining that wall will meet or exceed whatever illegal immigrants are costing in health care, I can almost guarantee it. It basically comes down to where there's a will there's a way. There's been cases of illegal immigrants strapping themselves to barrels and setting themselves adrift in the Gulf of Mexico, "hoping" that they'll end up in Alabama or Florida.

Guess where some of these illegal immigrants come from? China. How do they get here? The human black market and sometimes slave trade. You can't get a bigger wall than the Pacific Ocean.

My option, that's not listed, is to seriously discuss the problem and possible solutions without throwing peanuts to the elephants. Here the peanuts are "quick fix" solutions straight out of sci-fi films like Escape From New York that the common person can understand, but has no basis in reality. The elephant is us, the voting public. A politician with a pen and paper can easily sit down and run the numbers and see that there is no way a functioning wall will ever cover the entire south border of the U.S. and that the cost of such an operation will outweigh the benefits. But he doesn't have to run those numbers. He already knows that. The numbers he runs are the "us" versus "them" numbers and knows that if he promises to build a wall he'll never have to deliver a real working solution, and he'll get his votes.

This issue, like so many others, really is an "us" versus "them" voting issue. If the real problem is that illegal immigrants are costing us too much in health care, solutions might involve a discussion of how to reduce health care costs. Instead, they're saying: "They want you to learn Spanish! Build a wall!"

Another thing to consider with the "deport them all" option:

I think we can all agree that any U.S. citizen is afforded the same rights as any other U.S. citizen regardless of age or financial status. I don't know, maybe we can't agree on that. But legally every U.S. citizen is guaranteed certain rights.

Any child born on U.S. soil is a citizen of the United States. If you deport millions of illegal immigrants because they are "status:illegal", you are left with millions of legal citizens of the United States (the children of the illegal parents) who now become wards of the State. That's a huge bill that you'll end up having to pay.

Something to consider. My point is that the issue isn't as cut and dry as it's being framed.

[tkcomer]

I still say bust the employers. And hard. If there are no jobs, they won’t come. And yes, I’m aware of the Asia connection. Same principles apply here. Several years ago, when the INS unleashed but a small percentage to find the employers, border crossings went down. A lot left for their home countries. Let’s face it, they are illegals. This isn’t the same as Ellis Island several years ago. And when mom and or dad have to go, they take that natural born kid with them. And when it comes to “natural born”, I keep hearing that can be interpreted a different way. It was not meant to apply to illegals in this country that happened to have a kid. The INS, with the help of the local police could reverse this situation in as little as 5 years. Legally. With the present laws we have now.

[kybikertrash]

Okay, for one, if I gave birth to a child in a country that recognized my child as a citizen and I was told to leave that country, my child would not be a ward of the state, my child would go with me. I would not give up my child, and I'm sure the country I am leaving wouldn't object, because they probably don't want the burden of raising my child. When my child becomes an adult, if they are still a citizen of that country and they wish to return there legally, that will be their choice.

Now, if an illegal immigrant gives birth in the US and then is told to leave, if they don't take their child with them, then I have to assume they only gave birth to that child as a means of staying in this country. And if the mother of that child is an American citizen and the childs father is told to leave, then she can go with him to his country or she can stay here and raise that child alone. Lots of women do it - they are called "single mothers". After all she knew what she was doing when she got pregnant by an illegal, and she should be prepared for the day he may have to go back to his country. And if she didn't know he was illegal then she should have got to know him better before she started "playng house" with him.

[Jeremy]

Cracking down on employers is a realistic action, if not a solution. It may not solve the problem completely but it's at least something that falls in the realm of "real" (think: not Escape from New York) and is something that we're supposed to be doing anyway since it's against the law. That's sort of my point as well. Everyone get's riled up and says "close the borders and build a wall", when the job that's supposed to have been done all along isn't getting done. It's all about different approaches to a problem. If you don't treat a drug addict, for example, they'll find the drugs they want, no matter how many coast guard ships you've got.

I'm not a lawyer so I can't tell you what the law is when it comes to children born on U.S. soil. But this isn't a hop-the-fence and have a kid scenario. Some of these children have grown up in the United States for years and are (arguably) U.S. citizens. I know it sounds like bad parenting for the parents to get deported and leave their kids behind, but how many parents want better lives for their children and send them off to a better place? Many legally immigrated citizens were sent here by their parents for a better life. I can see more than a few parents leaving their children behind if deported, believing (at least to them) that they are doing the right thing by them.

[Chuck]

You did know that Mexico has a big wall on there southern border and they do shoot people that cross illegally.

I would like to add that they do not treat non-tourist Americans as good as we treat their people that cross here illegally.

There local law enforcement does get the option to deal with the problem and jail time is not set in stone. They can keep you as long as they want. All they have to say is you were transporting drugs.

It is the one thing I can say good about gitmo. it is like being at the Hilton compared to most foreign jails and prisons.

[Jeremy]

I don't know personally about Mexican jails, but I did live in Gitmo for two years when my dad was stationed there, and I don't think anyone would describe it as the Hilton, even in the free zones :) It's a lot like Arizona. But I get what you're saying, that no one would want to go to a Mexican jail. I don't see what that has to do with what I'm saying though. I'm not talking about who treats who better, I'm talking about real solutions versus hyped-up political ones.

All I'm just saying is it's a complicated issue. It's a lot more involved than putting up a wall and guarding it. Gitmo is a good example. When I was living there I got to take a tour of the wall separating the Navy base from the rest of Cuba. The fences were incredibly tall and dotted with guard towers occupied by armed soldiers. In addition, the two lands were separated by the world's largest minefield. Through binoculars we got to look across the divide to other armed men staring right back at us. It's monitored 24/7 by these men and no one is trying to jump it. If people were actually trying to get across it, there would have had to be more guards.

The Gitmo fence is only 17.4 miles long. The US-Mexico border, by comparison, is 1951 miles long. It's just not feasible. The cost of building and watching a 1951 mile long fence is incredibly expensive, just to find that they load up boats and go around it. That's what illegal Cuban immigrants do. They don't try to hop the fence into Guantanamo, they load up rafts and float the 90 miles to Miami.

Maybe Mexico doesn't like America, I don't know. Maybe people in the supermarket speaking Spanish destroys American values, again I don't know. All I know is a wall won't fix the problem and it'd be an incredible waste of time and money to build one. I'll go on record as saying the wall is a bad idea. The other point I made in my posts above, about illegal's kids becoming wards of the State, and mass-deportations causing more problems than they'd solve, I'll put a "maybe" on that one.

[mark]

This could pass in the Senate today

The $20,000 fines for hiring illegal immigrants once the new screening system is in place would be double the present level. Repeated violators could be sentenced to prison terms of up to three years.


Great idea. I'd also say let's start a program & instead of calling it "Crimestoppers" ... we can call it "alienstoppers".

Give a reward to those "whistleblowers" to help bust those employers who hire illegals.

I bet that phone # would never stop ringing.........see ya mark

Here Is The Best Answer, Dig A Channel The Length Of The Boarder, Send The Dirt To New Orleans To Help Shore Ou The Levees, Fill The Channel With Water And Stock It With Gators.

Hmmmm, that much dirt would cover up New Orleans.

This would make it above sea level. Maybe when the next hurricane hits, it won't flood so bad.

Great idea LOL............see ya mark

[Jeremy]

Here's what it will cost for a fence btw:

In Congress there is a proposal for a 700-mile fence to be constructed for an approximate 2.2 billion. But that incredibly high number won't be the actual cost. Why? San Diego proves it will cost more.

Since 1996 they've been constructing a 14-mile double fence outside of San Diego. It's 15-foot-high, rigid, steel-mesh barrier, and is the model for the proposed fence by Congress. Roughly $39 million has been spent on the project so far, and Homeland Security plans to spend $35 million more. Homeland Security gave them authority to disregard environmental and other laws in an effort to speed fence construction, so it's all been construction cost.

If that $74 million is enough to finish the job (Border Patrol officials say the cost could keep rising) and the price is multiplied over the proposed 700 miles, the new fence could run $3.7 billion. Even that estimate doesn't take into account the expense of purchasing or condemning many miles of privately owned land abutting the border or of potential legal challenges.

To run the breadth of the entire border, all 1951 miles of it, that $3.7 billion turns into $10.3 billion, give or take. And again, that's low-figuring it.

Considering that there are an estimated 12 million illegal immigrants living in the United States and a fence would cost $10.3 billion, that's about $860 dollars being spent for every single illegal here - each and every one.

As Mark suggested, a whistleblower program might be more effective. Instead of spending $860 per illegal for a fence that people will just go around (at least 8,000 illegal immigrants arrived in 1998 by boat or plane), I'm sure you can get a farmer to turn in at least a dozen for $50.

(The math on that is 12 million illegals / 12 turned in at a time @ $50 each = $50 million for an illegal free country... Big difference! :))

[Chuck]

Hi Jeremy, My above statement was not a reference to anything I read from one of your post.

The illegal immigration problem has been going on and ignored for 30+, years if not more. There is not simple 1 step fix, it is way to late for that. It will take an aggressive multi-step plan.

Personally I think the government is using this problem to side track us from other issues going on. I really don't see them implementing any real or solid solution to this problem. Give them a month and they will turn our attention to something new.

[tkcomer]

No, there is no real simple plan to stop this. Too many variables. Most of the masses coming here don’t really want to leave their homes. But their corrupt and repressive governments make them risk life and limb to come to this country. But, they wouldn’t come in waves if they knew there were no jobs for them. For a long time, after that nasty slave thing went bad, our country has allowed LEGAL immigration to get cheap labor. And they where forced to become “like us.” It’s a long drawn our process. But it was all on the up and up. The legals filled the vacancies we needed. Fast forward to now. Illegals are coming over in waves, not to fill jobs that nobody wants, but to fill jobs that employers don’t want to pay a decent wage for. Our politicians give their blessings to their corrupt governments to secure cheap labor, and oil for our country. And to allow our factories to go to these horrendous countries to manufacture products with their cheap labor for us. It is a complex problem. But it has a simple solution. Toss our politicians out. And toss out the next bunch if they don’t straighten up. But the voters in this country are way too stupid. Or this would have never gotten to this.

[jacquie]

Someone Said That We Should Start Turning In The Guys That Hire Illegals,ok If We Start Doing That Just Think About How Many Farmers That Will Not Have A Crop This Year. Then Those Who Enjoy Eating At Those Mexicans Rest.,well They Would Close Down.all The Chinese Rest. Will Be Hurting Also.the Construction Co. Will Not Pay $12 Hr. They Will Still Want Cheap Labor At $6 Hr. Alot Of People Will Suffer. Then What About Those That Have Children That Are Legal, Are They To Have To Be Orphaned......the Way I See It As Of Thursday They Passed A Bill So Now Only Have To Wait To See How The Congress Is Going To Handle It.

[Anonymous Coward]

Someone Said That We Should Start Turning In The Guys That Hire Illegals,ok If We Start Doing That Just Think About How Many Farmers That Will Not Have A Crop This Year. Then Those Who Enjoy Eating At Those Mexicans Rest.,well They Would Close Down.all The Chinese Rest. Will Be Hurting Also.the Construction Co. Will Not Pay $12 Hr. They Will Still Want Cheap Labor At $6 Hr. Alot Of People Will Suffer. Then What About Those That Have Children That Are Legal, Are They To Have To Be Orphaned......the Way I See It As Of Thursday They Passed A Bill So Now Only Have To Wait To See How The Congress Is Going To Handle It.


AND??? hiring illegal immigrants is/should be illegal.

Common hit me... ya know ya want to...
but first, just read my personal quote.... I just said what a lot of you all were thinking....

[Chuck]

Being an Illegal Immigrant is a crime.
Hiring an Immigrant is a crime.
Not paying taxes is a crime.
Not pay Social Security and expecting to draw off it is a crime.

Hiring Illegal Immigrant is an excuse to not have to pay a decent wage. It is the same as outsourcing jobs to to a foreign country. Only difference is it is done in this country under our noses.

Sorry about this, but if I don't pay taxes or SS then I would go to jail. Explain how this is fair for an Illegal Immigrant to get away with. Explain how it is fair that if I go to another country as Illegal Immigrant I would almost immediately go to jail.

[Foxy]

yeah what he said ^^ there....

[dpolley]

Being an Illegal Immigrant is a crime.
Hiring an Immigrant is a crime.
Not paying taxes is a crime.
Not pay Social Security and expecting to draw off it is a crime.

Hiring Illegal Immigrant is an excuse to not have to pay a decent wage. It is the same as outsourcing jobs to to a foriegn country. Only difference is it is done in this country under our noses.

Sorry about this, but if I don't pay taxes or SS then I would go to jail. Explain how this is fair for an Illegal Immigrant to det away with. Explain how it is fair that if I go to another country as Illegal Immigrant I would almost imediatly go to jail.
Very well said, Chuck.

[chevy]

I agree 100% Chuck!

[Foxy]

Any chance of sending this thread to the current administration in D.C.?

[jacquie]

Im Not For What All The Illegals Are Doing.im Just Saying That There Is Those That Do Obey The Rules.my Husband Is Illegal But Is Getting His Papers Legal Way. We Have Never Been On Foodstamps Or Welfare.we Take Care Of Our Selves Just Fine. Yes It Is A Crime To Be Here Illegally & Those Who Hire The Illegals Are In The Wrong To....but Who Wants To Do The Work That The Illegals Do?....ive Worked The Farm With My Husband & Believe Me Its Hard Work & I Dont Want To Do It Ever Again..i Was Told To Go Live In Mexico With My Husband..well I Have Been There & Its Ok To Visit But Im Use To Living A Good Life Here...ill Say It Again That Im Not For Those That Do The Wrong Ways But Those Who Do Try To Do Whats Right....all The Talk Is Mostly About Mexican Illegals...there Is Alot Of Other Illegals Here In Usa From Other Countries Besides Mexico....i Agree That We Do Need To Stop All The Illegals Coming Across The Border...but Something Needs To Be Done On The Other Side To...the President Of Mexico Should Be Held Responsible For The Problem To...we Keep Giving The Mexican President Money & He Spends It On What?...he Doesnt Help His People...we Needto Stop Helping Them....think About What Problems We Have Here In Usa....im Really Torn Between Alot Right Now Cause Im Dealing With All The Ins Stuff...but Im An American & Proud That I Can Speak My Mind...i Hope I Can Raise My Kids To Be Proud Americans To....still Keeping The Hispanic Culture Also.

[HARLEYDUDE]

If your husband is here illegal then to me you are breaking the law also--- no, ands, ifs, or buts ............ Its time we take back our country(i dont need to push 1 for english)

[Chuck]

Im Not For What All The Illegals Are Doing.im Just Saying That There Is Those That Do Obey The Rules.my Husband Is Illegal But Is Getting His Papers Legal Way.

Please try to understand that we don't mean to upset people with our comments. Some of us are venting as this is a heated topic.

We think of Mexicans mostly when any say illegal immigration because that is the biggest problem. When was the last time you seen and Illegal Chinese or even a Canadian walk the streets of Maysville.

An Illegal does not do the jobs that Americans don't want. That is a not true.
What is true is that they work for a wage that an Americans won't. It's not the job it's the wage.

Next would be exactly what you said. He sends money to Mexico and does not pay American taxes. If he did pay American taxes we would lose 90% of our argument.

Since you are married the status of his immigration is in limbo. But I still say if he wants to stay he should be changing some of his Mexican ways and work on being a true American. If his main loyalty is with another Country then he can never be an American and shouldn't be here just because for the money and because he Married here and has children.

[TheMan]

I true American can celebrate his/her own culture.. That's what America is.. a melting pot of all peoples. But to wave another nation's flag to protest being made to go back to that country??

I stand by my initial post. They want to stay? Stop waving the Mexican flag, learn to speak English, get a job and pay taxes just like I do and I'll not have issues.

[Foxy]

I am from Florida. The person that spoke of immigrants being Mexican but that there are others is correct. In Florida for instance they are having the same "issues" regarding Cubans.
It is the same thing there as here. I didn't know how serious it had gotten until my brother went to high school. In order for him to GRADUATE high school he had to take 3 (yes three) years of SPANISH!! This was not an elective, but a requirement!! That is ridiculous! Because the immigrants did not have to speak fluent ENGLISH to graduate, but he was made to learn Spanish??? Am I the only one that sees a problem with this??

French was an elective, as was German, and American Sign Language. But what teenager wants to tackle learning 2 FOREIGN languages at the same time? He wanted to take German or French because he knew he would be going into the Navy after graduating, and might need to speak a language like that. But he tried and couldn't study Spanish and another language at the same time.

[Jeremy]

Its time we take back our country(i dont need to push 1 for english)

Interestingly, if you press 1 for English you actually get someone in India with a thick Hindi accent that might as well be a foreign language. I wonder what happens if you press 2? Spanish-Hindi? :confused:

[ynotamerican]

We don't need new laws, we need to enforce the ones that are already on the books. It's illegal to hire an illegal ALIEN.
No job, no illegal aliens, except for the ones that come here to terrorize. Hmmm, maybe a wall might eliminate that potential. Cost? No comparison to costs after the next attack.

[Jeremy]

Algerian terrorist Ahmed Ressam tried to enter the U.S. from Canada with a trunk full of explosives and plans to bomb a major airport. Canadian border is approximately 4000 miles long, not including the Alaskan border.

[Foxy]

Interestingly, if you press 1 for English you actually get someone in India with a thick Hindi accent that might as well be a foreign language. I wonder what happens if you press 2? Spanish-Hindi? :confused:

So true! And yet so very very aggravating!!!