Clinton Campaign

[kdown]

Clinton Slams Bush, White House in Harlem


NEW YORK -- Sen. Hillary Clinton on Monday blasted the Bush administration as "one of the worst" in U.S. history and compared the Republican-controlled House of Representatives to a plantation where dissenting voices are squelched.

Speaking during a Martin Luther King Jr. Day event, Clinton also offered an apology to a group of Hurricane Katrina survivors "on behalf of a government that left you behind, that turned its back on you." Her remarks were met with thunderous applause by a mostly black audience at the Canaan Baptist Church of Christ in Harlem.


The House "has been run like a plantation, and you know what I'm talking about," said Clinton, D-N.Y. "It has been run in a way so that nobody with a contrary view has had a chance to present legislation, to make an argument, to be heard."

"We have a culture of corruption, we have cronyism, we have incompetence," she said. "I predict to you that this administration will go down in history as one of the worst that has ever governed our country."

[ponto]

I am flying down to Chocolate Town. I have to get out of plantation city.

Right now I'm on the JetBlue to storm-ravaged New Orleans, where the city's voluble mayor, Ray Nagin, has a mighty colorful way of calling his far-flung people home.

"This city will be chocolate bythe end of the day," the mayor vowed in a speech on Monday commemorating Martin Luther King Day.

"You can't have New Orleans no other way. The city will be a majority African-American city. It's the way God wants it to be," he said.

Leave aside for a moment how Nagin might know God's personal preferences on urban demographics. Heck, maybe Pat Robertson tipped off the mayor. For now, just notice the obvious: That's a pretty clumsy way, in a racially mixed city at a highly jumpy time, of inviting the suffering folks back home.

But Nagin wasn't alone in his racial ham-handedness. Just as Katrina victims, black and white, were letting out a giant "Huh?!" Hillary Clinton was up in Harlem, stumbling through her own unfortunate King Day rhetoric.

She was likening Congress to the pre-Civil War South. "When you look at the way the House of Representatives has been run," she told the congregation at Harlem's Canaan Baptist Church of Christ, "it has been run like a plantation - and you know what I'm talking about."

They did.

From all outward signs, no one in the church seemed especially offended by the antebellum analogy. Analogies, after all, are never exact. They aren't supposed to be. They're supposed to be vivid. If you tell me you're so mad you could spit, I don't reach immediately for a hankie. If I say I'm sick as a dog, you don't have to call the ASPCA.

But still. What a big, fat club this particular analogy handed to Clinton's eager opponents. Who proceeded without hesitation to beat her over the head.

Of course, there's a back story to both these verbal missteps, so many miles apart. And there's a motivation they share. The points Nagin and Clinton were trying to make had more to do with politics than with race.

On the plantation at Capitol Hill, Congress "has been run in a way so that nobody with a contrary point of view has had a chance to present legislation, to make an argument, to be heard," she said.

And who could deny that? Not a 2008 Democratic candidate for president playing to her base.

Similarly, when Nagin was talking "chocolate city" and God's own sense of data preferences, he was really focused on the issue that most interests every office holder - his own political future. New Orleans, two-thirds black before Katrina, is majority white now. If that balance holds, Ray Nagin won't be in City Hall for long.

So let the pounding begin. Two experienced politicians who should have known better left themselves vulnerable to easy slams. And they're both getting them.

As the airplane circles Louis Armstrong International Airport in New Orleans, the JetBlue TV is delivering updates on both these sad sacks. Hillary's people are finding old quotes from Newt Gingrich, former Republican speaker, when he was railing at Congress' majority Democrats. The year was 1994. Gingrich said they ran the place, yes, like a plantation.

And Mayor Nagin, as people do in New Orleans, was thinking race and talking recipes. "How do you make chocolate?" he asked. "You take dark chocolate, you mix it with white milk and it becomes a delicious drink. That's the chocolate I'm talking about. ... "

"New Orleans was a chocolate city before Katrina. It is going to be a chocolate city after. How is that divisive? It is white and black working together, coming together and making something special."

Backpedaling, that's called - in the North and the South.
Ellis Henican

[Eddie]

Thank God someone has the courage to stand up to the WHite House and all the crap that flows out of it! I hope that she runs for President, she'll put this country back on track within two years.

[tkcomer]

A lot of the things Hillary said are true. But with all the skeletons in her closet, how could any INFORMED voter pull a lever for her?

[Chuck]

A lot of the things Hillary said are true. But with all the skeletons in her closet, how could any INFORMED voter pull a lever for her?


She has Skeletons? Or are you think of Bill. I remeber Hillery suddered a bunch for what she went through and still stood by her man.

[dpolley]

Billary & Nagin......Two more idiots that continually get their faces and opinions on television. God help us if Mrs. Bill ever gets elected President. It will truly be a dark day for this nation (and no, it has nothing to do with the female in office thing).

[Eddie]

A lot of the things Hillary said are true. But with all the skeletons in her closet, how could any INFORMED voter pull a lever for her?

I am very INFORMED my friend, and I assure you and Mr. Polley that this country would be a lot better off with Hillary or for that matter her dog running the white house than what we have today. Ya know, anyone "truely INFORMED", would never judge someone for what their spouse did. How can you hold her accountable for Bill, and for that matter the lies he told may have had some moral implications, but it sure didn't get several hundred American boys and girls killed in Iraq now did it???

[tkcomer]

Because she was in on it. Their own advisor, Dick Morris said she was in on it. Read the Ledger Independent. She has already been fined $35000 for underreporting her campaign contributions. No Bill involved. She alone has been caught in lies. Why elect her?

[Eddie]

Because she was in on it. Their own advisor, Dick Morris said she was in on it. Read the Ledger Independent. She has already been fined $35000 for underreporting her campaign contributions. No Bill involved. She alone has been caught in lies. Why elect her?

Now come on TK, with all the things a US senator is faced with each day, you know as well as I that she has an aid that takes care of the contributions. Do you think she sits at the kitchen table like you and I and balances her check (contribution) book on Sunday night??? She's got bigger fish to fry, like coming up with the next statement to make yours Mark's and dpolley's blood pressure go up. LOL
I'm voting for Hillary if she runs, and hopefully by then some of you other BBS diehards will get eqully "INFORMED" and get on board. There's room for everyone on the Clinton wagon, so get on now. Your kids and grandkids will thank you some day.

[tkcomer]

That’s the problem. Why have we the voters given up? Why vote for anyone that has been caught lying? Defeat that person in the primaries. Why are we not outraged at her behavior? Why are we not outraged at any of the behavior of our congressmen? I believe we do not care anymore. Or none of these people would get re-elected.

[mark]

The House "has been run like a plantation, and you know what I'm talking about," said Clinton, D-N.Y.

...........more proof that the flaming liberals gets a free ride. Could you imagine what the outcry would be if a Republican said the same thing??

New York would probably be burning right now................see ya mark

[kdown]

You got it right again Mark. I can't imagine any state having 2 worst senators than New York. Clinton and Schumer even give "liberals" a bad name. Neither one has ever seen a camera they didn't like regardless of the situation.

[GirlColumbo]

politics sure make an UGLY picture these days

[Eddie]

You got it right again Mark. I can't imagine any state having 2 worst senators than New York. Clinton and Schumer even give "liberals" a bad name. Neither one has ever seen a camera they didn't like regardless of the situation.

Ken I gotta tell ya, I signed on tonight wondering "whats Ken going to post about Hillary next? But that picture of Hillary you posted was just to dang funny for me to even respond to! Heck, I don't even know if I could vote for her now after seeing that! Now when I walk in that booth thats the image I'm gonna have! Would someone PLEASE find a real funny picture of little George so I can get back on track here??? Ken you're killing me! Please no more pictures like that@!
Heck, I'm going to Wal-Mart to find a Vote for Little George bumper sticker....see what you've done now!

[GirlColumbo]

That photo of Hillary is where she just ate some crow at Tammy Wynettes table

[mark]

You got it right again Mark. I can't imagine any state having 2 worst senators than New York. Clinton and Schumer even give "liberals" a bad name. Neither one has ever seen a camera they didn't like regardless of the situation.

I must admit Ken, that's a neat pic. Great job! ( hope it's true too ) .............see ya mark

[kdown]

"She's trying to appease the far left, keeping an eye on her national ambitions," Spencer said, adding that she is also working hard to portray herself as a moderate for the New York Senate race and for a possible national election. "It's Clintonesque - trying to be all things to all people."

[kdown]

Bubba with nuttin to do in the White House

[kdown]

Lighting the way to the " plantation "

[kdown]

This is laugh out loud funny

http://politicalhumor.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ&sdn=politicalhumor&zu=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.flowgo.com%2Ffunpages%2Fview.c fm%2F6660

[kdown]

These calculated moments of Democrat demagoguery illuminate liberalism's three-decade-old moral bankruptcy on issues of race. There isn't a day that goes by without Democrats effectively using the race card against their opponents in every political debate ranging from education to border security to the courts. It's time for conservatives, Republicans in Washington and minorities with half a brain to call their bluff. Stand up. Defend your honor. Don't let it pass.

[kdown]

Presented to Hillary " Plantation" Clinton. It is a revolving award. Next to Ray " chocolate " Nagin and finally it will rest with Pat Robertson.

[dpolley]

Presented to Hillary " Plantation" Clinton. It is a revolving award. Next to Ray " chocolate " Nagin and finally it will rest with Pat Robertson.
Couldn't each of the three recipients mentioned have one of their own awards to keep, considering that they will all be multiple winners? They could just keep the one they receive now as opposed to having one shipped to them every time they open their mouths?

[kdown]

Too funny dpolley. LMAO

Remember this Clinton scandal

WASHINGTON (AP) - The independent counsel who investigated former Housing Secretary Henry Cisneros contended in his final report Thursday that the Justice Department and IRS blocked his efforts to probe possible Cisneros tax violations.

People who worked in the Clinton administration denied the allegations by prosecutor David M. Barrett, whose $20 million, decade-long probe was the longest ever under the post-Watergate reform law. It eclipsed the multiyear investigations by Ken Starr of the Clintons and Lawrence Walsh of the Iran-Contra affair.

[Shrek]

Why doesn't the press post the truth about Bush.

1. Killing American Job's
2. Taking a Country to war for personal business interests. (His Daddy and OPEC)
3. Taking Constitutional freedoms and throwing them out the window.

The list goes on and on and on. But you won;t read that in the Right Winged Republican Press.

[dpolley]

Why doesn't the press post the truth about Bush.
1. Killing American Job's
2. Taking a Country to war for personal business interests. (His Daddy and OPEC)
3. Taking Constitutional freedoms and throwing them out the window.
The list goes on and on and on. But you won;t read that in the Right Winged Republican Press.
Perhaps. But you see enough of it on CNN and hear about it from every wacko celebrity that think they're experts on everything because they've done a few movies!

[Anonymous Coward]

**Chuck I think we need to delete this thread. They are bashing Hillary, and it could hurt her when she runs for office. I am offended by the whole thread because of Bush lovers, and self righteous republicans. And liberal is an offending 7 letter word**

[Anonymous Coward]

Just kidding about deleting the thread. I actually am enjoying it. Gives me a look at the other side if the coin.

[Jeremy]

Actually, even as a voting Democrat, and Independent in my politics, and a fan of Bill Clinton despite his shortcomings, I'm happy to see the Republicans here with a thread they can have fun with. I even enjoyed the Hillary Bashing cartoons. I have only one complaint though...




You missed one:

http://graphics.filecorner.com/thedailydose/lll/archives/hillary-bashing.jpg

Now that's Hillary bashing!

[Shrek]

Perhaps. But you see enough of it on CNN and hear about it from every wacko celebrity that think they're experts on everything because they've done a few movies!

I can tell now this is not going to be a discussion. You have made up your mind to follow this man blindly and without question. I just hope he doesn't get us attacked again.

I wish you luck with that whole "Follow hi blindly" thing. I will move on to a new thread. We have to many years and tears left with this Bush to argue about it now.

[dpolley]

I can tell now this is not going to be a discussion. You have made up your mind to follow this man blindly and without question. I just hope he doesn't get us attacked again.
I wish you luck with that whole "Follow hi blindly" thing. I will move on to a new thread. We have to many years and tears left with this Bush to argue about it now.
That's the beauty of this country (and this site): we're free to state our own opinions and believe in what we choose. Don't cut & run; it takes the fun out of it....

[Shrek]

I just thought we where chatting in the wrong forum about this. It was a Hillary topic.

Dick.M

[kdown]

Remember.........

Vince Foster, Travelgate, Madison Savings and Loan,
national health insurance disaster the "co-president"
statement and Sir Edmond Hillary.

You can bet that all these items will make the press in 2008 campaign

[mark]

Remember.........
Vince Foster, Travelgate, Madison Savings and Loan,
national health insurance disaster the "co-president"
statement and Sir Edmond Hillary.
You can bet that all these items will make the press in 2008 campaign

................and they should, especially the behind closed doors health care fiasco when Bill took office. She was ready to turn almost 1/7th of the U.S. economy to gov't pork spending called health care. I have nothing against those who needs it, but, it's being tried currently in Canada. It's a wonderful system if you're willing to wait 6-8 months for a simple surgery.............see ya mark

[kdown]

Don't expect her to use her signal lights

[kdown]

HILLARY'S ABIDING COMMITMENT
June 10, 2003

by Joe Sobran

The Clintons are back in the news, which would be
more bearable if only they hadn't brought the Clinton-
haters with them. Unavoidable, of course. To this day
neither Bill nor Hillary seems to understand why they are
so annoying to so many people, separately and as a
couple.

Mrs. Clinton has finally published her memoir --
maybe you've heard about it -- in which she explains why
their troubled marriage has endured. Among the reasons
she offers are their "common faith and our abiding
commitment to our country." Either that makes you gag or
it doesn't. For me it summons memories of Bill escorting
her to church, clutching his Bible. Faith. Commitment. A
girl waiting in the Oval Office.

All politicians talk like that, of course. Seeking
and holding office is called "public service," though
it's generally a career of self-service that would bore
most of us to death. It also requires episodes of
debasing self-exposure such as Hillary is now performing
to promote her book, which in turn will promote her
career.

The book is already disappointing -- or rather
satisfying -- the Clinton-haters. It apparently takes the
modified limited hangout approach to all the hot, or
reheated, questions about Whitewater, the Rose Law Firm,
the death of Vince Foster, the last-minute pardons, the
looting of the White House, and of course the Monica
episode. Hillary still insists that she believed Bill's
denials until he finally retracted them.

I must say I've long since lost interest in all
these matters. It would be too much to say I've come to
admire the Clintons, but I have learned to accept them
for what they are. Bill is one of the great con men of
American history, and Hillary, an ambitious girl, went
along for the ride. Did he con her too? Methinks not. She
was his accomplice, his accessory, his co-conspirator.
She shares, in addition to his abiding commitment to our
country, some of his catlike ability to land on his feet.
She just lands a little harder, that's all.

The Clinton-haters, like the Clintons, are generally
baby-boomers; they regard the Clintons with the special
resentment one feels for the classmate who achieves great
success by throwing ethics to the wind. You know he did
something crooked, he's phony as a three-dollar bill, but
you can go nuts trying to catch him out. He knows all the
angles, and he's too smart to get caught. It's his
simulated pieties -- that Bible, the references to the
Kennedys and Martin Luther King -- that may make you
apoplectic, unless you can just relax and savor the
comedy of it all.

The joke's on us. Here is a man who has never held a
real job (and avoided going to his generation's war) yet
who won the presidency of the United States while still
young; who is chauffeured in limousines; who makes
millions of dollars with ease; and who has all the women
he wants, while still married to his first wife!

If that isn't success, I don't know what is. The
American Dream, 2003! And Hillary shares it, because she
has never dissociated herself from him. Her patience is
finally paying off. Some people think she should have
ditched him long ago, but this is a rather moralistic and
humorless position to take. Yes, she could have been, had
she chosen, the ex-wife of a former governor of Arkansas
who went on to become president.

But how much would her memoirs have commanded in
that case? What would have been her chances of winning a
U.S. Senate seat? (In New York, not Arkansas!) In
peddling her book, she is publicly recalling how she
agonized over whether to stay married to Bill, weighing
her dignity against that abiding commitment to our
country ...

No, with a sure instinct Hillary stuck it out. And
with a touch of Bill's own genius for the rhetorical
currency of the age, she did it while posing as a
feminist. Being a strong woman. Keeping her own identity.
Staying in touch with her inner Rodham.

Why should Rogers dump Astaire? It's a great
partnership, even for the junior partner. Sure, it helped
Bill, but it hasn't done her any harm either. It is not
good that Bill should be alone, and destiny has provided
him with an help meet for him.

[FreeOurPOWs]

The Hildabeast is a lost soul. Her love of Marxism and her "divide and conquer" mentality played well to those sheeple in that church, but mainstream America knows better. We are the ONLY nation in the history of the world to End Slavery, ever. We did not start slavery either. It was a world institution that is still going on in Africa today by the way, not to mention China, Russia, North Korea, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, and elsewhere.

These race baiters who play their drivel to the sheeple so they can bleat to their friends at parties and on internet blogs will have a rude awakening when they meet the Judge. It will be Baaaaaaaaaaaad!

I cannot believe that anyone with one iota of a brain would even listen to this redneck scum from Arkansas who embraced Marxism at an early age and is promoting the atheist one world government of the anti-Christ. Follow the hildabreast and you had best have a fireproof suit, heh heh heh.

[Shrek]

You seem to do a lot of name calling. Not much substances to your posts.

Glad to see a extreme self-righteous make the stage.

[ponto]

The Hildabeast is a lost soul.

Follow the hildabreast and you had best have a fireproof suit, heh heh heh.

Was this a typo or a new word? LOL

LINK (http://www.hilldabeast.com/)

[Jeremy]

We are the ONLY nation in the history of the world to End Slavery, ever.

Huh? Slavery was already ended in many European countries by the time we got around to having our Civil War. For example, the 1834 Emancipation Bill was what abolished slavery in England. Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation didn't come until 1863. Outside pressure from other countries to end slavery in this country is actually one of the issues that contributed to our own Civil War. Many believe that had the South won, slavery would still have been abolished eventually because of this outside pressure.

[kdown]

Referring to fugitive al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden, Clinton said, "You cannot explain to me why we have not captured or killed the tallest man in Afghanistan."

Perhaps she's forgot that her husband had more than one opportunity to take bin Laden out and refused to do so.

I guess the when it comes to Hillary, " the lights on but there's nobody home"

Click to check out Queen Hillary

[mark]

..................OSB could have been handed to Clinton on a silver platter & he refused it.

Wonder why the liberal press doesn't talk about that??..........see ya mark

[GirlColumbo]

probably cause money talks and BS walks???????????

[Jeremy]

Guys, if Clinton could have got him at any time, then logically Bush could have just as easily when he took office. The same intel Clinton had, Bush inherited. If it were believed that Osama bin Laden was enemy #1 during the Clinton Administration, then naturally he should have been priority #1 during the first months of the Bush Administration. He is supposed to be priority #1 right now and he still is missing.

Some news stories are archived on the web. Here's one from 1998 about the missile strikes ordered by Clinton against terrorist targets:
http://news.telegraph.co.uk/htmlContent.jhtml?html=/archive/1998/08/21/wemb21.html

If Clinton had no problem firing missles at terrorist targets, what makes you think that he would just let bin Laden walk given the chance? Further, why didn't Bush do the job when he became President if it was all so clear?

Total political poppycock.

[Jeremy]

From that article I linked to above:

With suspicions aroused that the attacks were timed to distract public attention from the grand jury's questioning of Miss Lewinsky, Mr Cohen was asked to respond to suggestions that the action bore a remarkable resemblance to a recently released film. Wag The Dog, starring Robert de Niro and Dustin Hoffman, concerns an American president who is caught fondling a teenage girl while she was touring the White House. As a diversion, his spin doctors invent a war with Albania.

Mr Cohen stressed that "the only motivation driving this action today was our absolute obligation to protect the American people from terrorist activities. That is the sole motivation. No other consideration has been involved."

Funny, isn't it. Today they are saying that Clinton let bin Laden walk. Back then, when he tried to kill bin Laden, they said he was trying to distract people from the Lewinsky scandal. And they say we give Bush a hard time. Go figure.

[Eddie]

..................OSB could have been handed to Clinton on a silver platter & he refused it.

Wonder why the liberal press doesn't talk about that??..........see ya mark

You forget that at one point, OSB was considered a friend of the US. The US actually supported him both financially and with weapons when he was fighting in Afganastan. He was considered almost a hero for fighting the Russians, and Bush Senior was behind him all the way as well as Regan. So get off the Clinton blame game and get ready to move the Republicans out of the White House in 3 years. Give Kerry and Hillary 4 years in Washington, and you'll see a "true" Democrating USA, one where there are new Jobs, and not just at Burger King, one were every kid has a chance at a higher educatoin, one where there's peace in the middle east, and one where our standard of living is not set by two rich oil men from Texas who only give a crap about keeping the price of gas over two dollars a gallon. This country will at least have a ray of hope for our kids future. I can't wait to vote the Kerry/Hillary ticket! I only hope they decide to run together, what a GREAT country this could be.
And as far as the health care system of Canada goes, I have several friends who work in Detroit but live in Canada, and they LOVE the health care system there. The idea that you have to wait 6 years for a surgery is something planted by the Republicans to scare people away from the idea, and is not true at all. The truth is, the Canadian health care system works, and the people there love it. The best part, is everyone gets the same level of care regardless of their bank account. But of course the other side, there's no rich stock holders controlling the prices the hospitals and doctors charge, so I guess theres not as much big Texas dollars to be made huh!

[mark]

Give Kerry and Hillary 4 years in Washington, and you'll see a "true" Democrating USA, one where there are new Jobs, and not just at Burger King, one were every kid has a chance at a higher educatoin,

...........suppose they do get elected. Since they promote a stagnant economy with big tax increases, What is their plan to create new jobs, & give every kid a chance to higher education?

I'd love to hear their plan instead of listening to the Bush bashing all the time.............see ya mark

[Jeremy]

I don't know about Hillary, but if Kerry were to run again, you can probably find a transcript of the Presidential debates on the web somewhere where he spoke specifically about his plans. As I recall, he did very well in the debates. Most agree that he won all three of them.

[mark]

I don't know about Hillary, but if Kerry were to run again, you can probably find a transcript of the Presidential debates on the web somewhere where he spoke specifically about his plans. As I recall, he did very well in the debates. Most agree that he won all three of them.

.................the transcripts probably are out there somewhere, however, "winning" debates isn't the answer. Who cares about that.

I even passed speech & debate classes in college & I wasn't near as efficient as a practiced politician is these days. The surprising thing about most dems these days are.............they have no plan, or they are scared to reveal it because of possible negative publicity.

Otherwise...their buddies in the press would be splashing it all over the media. I have to see their plan to believe it but I haven't yet.

I suppose that's Bush's fault also...it seems everything else is..................see ya mark

[stinkerbelle]

mark you seem to forget everything is clintons fault

[tkcomer]

So the Democrats don’t have a plan. What’s good about the Republican’s plan. More war and more debt? Watching a health care system slowly go under? Because their friends and employees of the US taxpayer don’t have to worry about health care. Refusal to take on big oil to reduce this country’s dependency on imports? By finding alternatives to crude? Letting jobs that pay taxes disappear to hostile countries that use the profit to build up their military? The Republicans are supposed to be conservatives. Mind your own business. Keep those dollars here so we can pay down the debt. Their cry during the 90s was that the Democrats were going to bankrupt this country with all their reckless spending. They were going to put the fiscal house of congress in order. Boy was I wrong.

[Jeremy]

I don't really have time to list every Democrat's plan, but each of their web sites prominently displays plans and current activities by them.

The reason you don't hear much about them is because of standard guerilla tactics. The person in the top position must defend their position from attacks, currently Democrats are not in the top position. The people in the second position on down's job is to whittle away at the position of the top dog until they can assume that position for themselves. Then they switch to defender of the castle. It's standard warfare that occurs in politics, business, pretty much everywhere. A candidate vying for the top position could waste 100% of precious airtime on what they plan to do in office. They could do that. More effective, however, is to spend 75% pointing out the shortcomings of who's in office and 25% talking about how they plan to change those things once they get in. That forces the opponent to spend 100% of the conversation on defense. It's just a matter of what's more effective.

[plumcrazy]

I just saw Hillary's comments asking why we haven't been able to get Bin Ladin, stating he was the tallest man in Iraq. Really does make you wonder, the guys like 6'7?

[mark]

So the Democrats don’t have a plan. What’s good about the Republican’s plan. More war and more debt? Watching a health care system slowly go under? Because their friends and employees of the US taxpayer don’t have to worry about health care. Refusal to take on big oil to reduce this country’s dependency on imports? By finding alternatives to crude? Letting jobs that pay taxes disappear to hostile countries that use the profit to build up their military? The Republicans are supposed to be conservatives. Mind your own business. Keep those dollars here so we can pay down the debt. Their cry during the 90s was that the Democrats were going to bankrupt this country with all their reckless spending. They were going to put the fiscal house of congress in order. Boy was I wrong.


.................Hmmmm, more Bush bashing, still, what's their plan?? ............see ya mark

[tkcomer]

Bush bashing? I’m bashing the whole bunch. Bush couldn’t have done anything without their permission. Only congress is supposed to decide who we attack. They shirked their responsibility when they signed off on Bush’s agenda. Of course we know now they signed off on false information. But that doesn’t excuse the fact they refused to do their job. The ability to wage war, as Abraham Lincoln noted, is "the most oppressive of all Kingly oppressions; and they (the framers) naturally resolved to so frame the constitution that no one man should hold the power of bringing this oppression upon us." And for those that hate income taxes, that was created to wage a war. A war machine that now consumes close to 25% of the federal budget. But alas, the people voted for these rascals. Seems they know less about the constitution than the devils they elect.

[kdown]

Bill and Hillary were taking stroll outside the White House gates one morning, and came upon a little boy trying to give away a litter of puppies. When Hillary remarked about how cute they were, the little boy said, "Yes, ma'am, they are. They're democrats."

Hillary thought this was so sweet that she told the boy if he still had one left by the weekend, she would be glad take one of them home. The boy agreed and Bill and Hillary walked on.

So comes the weekend and Bill and Hillary are again strolling in front of the White House and notice the little boy with the puppies. Hillary walks up and greets the young man, who has two puppies left. She fawns over both of them and the boy remarks this time, "Only two left ma'am, and they're both republicans."

Hillary quickly sneered and said, "But the other day, you said the puppies were democrats."

The boy replied, "Well, yes ma'am. But since then, they've opened their eyes."

[Chuck]

Bill and Hillary were taking stroll outside the White House gates one morning, and came upon a little boy trying to give away a litter of puppies. When Hillary remarked about how cute they were, the little boy said, "Yes, ma'am, they are. They're democrats."

Hillary thought this was so sweet that she told the boy if he still had one left by the weekend, she would be glad take one of them home. The boy agreed and Bill and Hillary walked on.

So comes the weekend and Bill and Hillary are again strolling in front of the White House and notice the little boy with the puppies. Hillary walks up and greets the young man, who has two puppies left. She fawns over both of them and the boy remarks this time, "Only two left ma'am, and they're both republicans."

Hillary quickly sneered and said, "But the other day, you said the puppies were democrats."

The boy replied, "Well, yes ma'am. But since then, they've opened their eyes."

Wait till they learn to understand "what" they see, then they will be democrats again. Love that joke but it flip-flops sides for the party yelling it.

[Chuck]

Maybe jokes designed to insult people for their beliefs should stay in the humor section and we could debate with facts in the threads.

[kdown]

OK, how's this for ON TOPIC ?

ALBANY, N.Y. (AP) - Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton's likely Republican Senate race challenger charged Monday that the New York Democrat's criticism of the Bush administration "aids and abets our enemies" in the battle against terrorism.

John Spencer's comments to reporters came after a fiery speech to the state Conservative Party leadership in which, during a defense of the Patriot Act, he also attacked the administration of former President Bill Clinton.

"I wish we had it before 9-11," said the former mayor of Yonkers. "And, I wish we had an administration in Washington that wasn't an appeasing, liberal, whining administration in the 90's that allowed the terrorists to build up the way they built up."

There was no immediate comment from the former first lady.

[Chuck]

It's all opinion and conjecture. I for one am against the Patriot Act. Just cause you give it the name "Patriot" doesn't make it good.

When you read the Patriot Act or the DMCA I will be more than glad to have a conversation about it.

You might also like to know that no congress an read this bill before they made it law. And that is a slam on both parties.

Your accusation about the 90's are just made from hind sight anger. It does no good to kill people that have done nothing wrong. It would be like arresting your neighbor cause you THINK he will commit a crime.

Remember Reagan gave these guys money, weapons and training. You think he should carry some blame for 911?

[Jeremy]

What's wrong with the Patriot Act?

http://www.eff.org/patriot/

The major reasons I am against it:

1)
The law dramatically expands the ability of states and the Federal Government to conduct surveillance of American citizens. The Government can monitor an individual's web surfing records, use roving wiretaps to monitor phone calls made by individuals "proximate" to the primary person being tapped, access Internet Service Provider records, and monitor the private records of people involved in legitimate protests.

The law isn't reserved for federal agencies and has been used since its inception for all sorts of unrelated interests far beyond terrorism. Recently I pointed out that Feds have been spying on protestors of HoneyBaked Ham for instance. But it doesn't stop there. Any law enforcement agency, federal, state, or local could use the Patriot Act to further political, financial, and private goals. Even if you trust the federal government and want to give them the tools to combat terrorism, the Patriot Act gives corrupt cops power too.

2)
PATRIOT eliminates Government accountability. While PATRIOT freely eliminates privacy rights for individual Americans, it creates more secrecy for Government activities, making it extremely difficult to know about actions the Government is taking.

Not only does the Patriot Act open the window for all sorts of abuses, it gets rid of the paper trail. One politician could literally do the whole Watergate thing under the guise of a federal crime, even a misdemeanor, and there's no paper trail. Another of the Patriot Act's new powers is the "sneak and peek" warrant. "A 'sneak and peek' warrant authorizes law enforcement officers to enter private premises without the occupant's permission or knowledge and without informing the occupant that such a search was conducted." That's almost literally what happened during Watergate. You can't fix something if you don't know how it's broke. You don't know it's broke if there's no accountability.


Remember that the government works for us. There's a reason that words like "Big Brother" and "1984" have been dropped with increasing frequency in recent years. The novel 1984, by George Orwell showed us a negative-utopia where the government was not your friend. Any who have read the book may recall that as the story unfolded we learned that the futuristic government designed a perfect negative-utopia in which the country was always at war and the people were always kept in fear, even so far as staging fake bombings to keep people in fear.

By being in a persistent war, more power was handed over to the government to protect the people. By the time that the main character was alive, his country had always been at war, had "thought police" spying through two-way televisions, had neighbors eager to drop a dime on people suspected of being out of line, cameras on every corner, etc.

The people living in the country believed this was all for the best. That Big Brother watched out for them. (Spoiler Alert) By the end of the novel we learned that it wasn't about that at all. It wasn't about protecting the little people. The people in power set this all up for the mere sake of power alone. You read the story expecting the main character to somehow revolt against Big Brother, to rise up and fight the system. In the end, he gives in and embraces Big Brother. I'd hate to see it come to that.

[kdown]

Question ?

Who said, "Many of you are well enough off that...the tax cuts may have helped you. We're saying that for America to get back on track, we're probably going to cut that short and not give it to you. We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good"?

[Jeremy]

Question ?

Who said, "Many of you are well enough off that...the tax cuts may have helped you. We're saying that for America to get back on track, we're probably going to cut that short and not give it to you. We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good"?

Answer:

It was Hillary speaking at a Democratic fund-raiser in San Francisco. However, you need to realize who she was speaking to. It was at a fund-raising event where many of the people paid as much as $10,000 to attend. In other words, they were rich. That has been the Democrats point concerning the tax cuts all along. They were designed to benefit the rich with little to no benefit to the middle class to poor. She was saying that for America to benefit as a whole, the rich may have to forego the cut until we get back on track.

Also it must be remembered that the tax cuts were originally designed when there was a government surplus. Sadly, that's not the case now.

No one likes taxes, but the situation at hand is pretty sour. Personally, and I don't know if it is because it is tax season or because I'm not a fan of the war, but I'd like to see them lower income taxes and increase tax to companies that financially benefit from the war. If a company's stock doubles because they created a new weapon in time of war, tax them. If Haliburton is making tons of money selling war supplies, more than they do in times of peace, tax them more. They'll still profit, just less. Economies naturally suffer in times of war and yet war also makes millionaires out of others. Decreasing personal income tax will do as Bush says, help the economy. However, that money has to come from somewhere. It makes sense to me to get it from war profiteers.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/news/archive/2004/06/28/politics2039EDT0165.DTL&type=printable

[tkcomer]

Wow, this post has gone on a long time. I don’t even like Hillary. But finally, someone that says you can’t increase spending and lower taxes. Like the Republicans have done. It’s a recipe for disater.

[kdown]

No matter where she said it, it just demonstrates the mind set of the woman. Can you say " socialism "

[Jeremy]

I don't plan on voting for her. I'd really be surprised if they actually ran her. While I have no problem voting for the right female President, in an election where there is no incumbent, and they already said they don't plan on running the Vice President (when in the past has that happened?), there's no need to get controversial. Run the safe candidate this time I say. Save the historical landmark of the first woman President for someone who more deserves the honor.

[kdown]

Finally we agree

[Jeremy]

:D Got Mark to agree with something I said last week. Two for two. W00T!

[mark]

Decreasing personal income tax will do as Bush says, help the economy. However, that money has to come from somewhere. It makes sense to me to get it from war profiteers.


This part of your post I totally agree with.

It makes more sense having the gov't to quit PORK SPENDING & killing our children's future. Hmmmm, they should actually balance their budget, similar to what we average Americans do every month.

That's what makes the most sense.............see ya mark

[tkcomer]

I really don’t think it matters who gets in. Federal Reserve says we are going under in 20 years at the rate both sides are spending. So far, they’ve never been wrong. The politicians won’t stop spending more than they take in and the people won’t replace them. Countries are changing their money from the dollar to Euro in anticipation of our fall. Several are even hesitant to buy our treasury bonds in anticipation of our default on them. Many countries are voicing concern over our high debt fearing we will be the country that drags the world economy down. And we just keep spending beyond our means. We might as well eliminate all taxes. The quicker we go under, the quicker we can rebuild. Our military will be forced to come home. Only this time it will be tougher. The factories are in other countries. And they won’t take an IOU.