Michael Newdow is at it again............

[mark]

Michael Newdow, who has already filed a suit to take "under God" out of the Pledge of Allegiance, is now suing to remove our national motto from our currency.

Newdow told the ACLU of Oklahoma that the national motto on U.S. currency is a violation of the separation of church and state. He is offended because he is an atheist. He wants to use the Federal courts to make his atheism the official religion of America.

Newdow filed in the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals which recently ruled that judges, not parents, have the final say in what will be taught school children concerning sex education. These same liberal judges supported Newdow and ruled that the phrase "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance was unconstitutional. That suit was dismissed due to a technicality so Newdow sued again.
---------------------------------------
So....what do you think??

Should Newdow get his way ( I put in bold print above ) in both of his requests....or not??

Most of you probably know my thoughts, so, I wish you read some of yours 1st, then I'll post..............see ya mark

[stinkerbelle]

i support newdow the founding fathers put in the seperation of church and state for a reason (afganastan,iran examples of religion in charge) they were not stupid people they knew religion is always used to divide people not to unite..."in god we trust"...is a modern addition...the first dollars motto was..."mind your business"..."under god"...was a way to tell the godless russians we were better than them ....newdow is a real patriot....religion is personal and should stay inside churches

[kdown]

Origin of the United States National Motto

IN GOD WE TRUST, designated as the U. S. National Motto by Congress in 1956, originated during the Civil War as an inscription for U. S. coins, although it was used by Francis Scott Key in a slightly different form when he wrote The Star Spangled Banner in 1814. On Nov. 13, 1861, when Union morale had been shaken by battlefield defeats, the Rev. M. R. Watkinson, of Ridleyville, Pa. wrote to Secy. of the Treasury Salmon P. Chase, "From my heart I have felt
our national shame in disowning God as not the least of our present national disasters," the minister wrote, suggesting "recognition of the Almighty God in some form on our coins." Secy. Chase ordered designs prepared with the inscription IN GOD WE TRUST and backed coinage legislation which authorized use of this slogan.
It first appeared on some U. S. coins in 1864, disappeared and reappeared on various coins until 1955, when Congrress ordered it placed on all paper money and all coins.

[ponto]

Some other places where it can be seen in Government are inscribed above the chair where the speaker of the House of Representative sits. It is also above the entrance to the U.S. Senate Chamber.

[dpolley]

Another example of the minority trying to dictate to the entire country, certain renegade judges playing lawmaker, and our wonderful media spreading it around like it's really newsworthy. All of their constant reporting on so-called "news items" such as this does nothing but divide the country more. Isn't it time that the majority of this country stood up and took control instead of letting the lunatic fringe dictate to the rest of us? This country would be a much better place if the ACLU and their puppet judges were done away with.

[acoolmom777]

This "Michael" reminds me a lot of a neighbor on my street…
When she gets bored, she has to start something that will make her the center of attention. What will be next… changing our Flag…making it…13 stars and 50 strips…

“He wants to use the Federal courts to make his atheism the official religion of America”.

Then what makes him better than the “Christian” he must so despises?

People need to get back and stick with the right of choice and learn to respect others. Easier said then done, I am so sure, but if you stop and think how much of a better place this world would be…it is almost too scary.

[Groundhog]

When you place all religious groups on equal ground, they will either grow or they will die out. For the government to endorse a certain religious group creates an unfair advantage and seperates the people as a whole. Their must be a seperation between church and state for our democracy to work, otherwise you have nothing more than religious facism. On a fair playing field, Christianity will survive if it is the true religion. However, Christianity for the most part, has never played fair. It is for this reason that it has become a world religion. Take away its power to use force over people to maintain its influence, and within a very short time...it would be gone. In other words, any religion that has to use force, government support, whatever, to remain effective...is a dead religion.

[mark]

When you place all religious groups on equal ground, they will either grow or they will die out. For the government to endorse a certain religious group creates an unfair advantage and seperates the people as a whole.

I don't see the gov't endorsing any specific religion. "In God We Trust" is endorsed by almost every protestant religion.

BTW, just where would America be without the endorsement of religion?

If all religion were banned as Newdow wants, only the hoodlums would be in control. The belief in God is the only thing that keeps America from turning into a cesspool...............see ya mark

[stinkerbelle]

mark you are downright offensive in your own special and socialy acceptable way...what is that which makes a cesspool stink? is it a president who lies about w.m.d. and spends our treasury down to nothing but debt for every man woman and child in this great country of ours?...a man who drapes himself in religion for his own neferious reasons?...a man who decides citizens dont deserve the protection of our 200 year old bill of rights?...a man who uses words like "crusade" to enflame one sixth of the planets population?....a man who says "bring it on" to the people of the land he just invaded (with total disregard for the poor people who have to do his dirty work)....a man who protects torture?...a man who alows the use of white phosphorus against innocent men women and children in falujah...all the while claiming to be a christian and protecting a "culture of life"....who are the real hoodlums???????? religion is personal and has no place in government or on money.........mind your business.....
be offended by that which is offensive......chemicaly melting human flesh is offensive

[ponto]

White Phosphorus burns bodies, in fact it melts the flesh all the way down to the bone.

Phosphorus explodes and forms a cloud. Anyone within a radius of 150 metres is done for.

The use of incendiary weapons against civilians has been banned by the Geneva Convention since 1980.

US has acknowledged using incendiary white phosphorus munitions in a 2004 offensive in the Iraqi city of Fallujah but defended their use as legal.

More (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_phosphorus_incendiary)

[kdown]

The Myth of
the Separation of Church and State

Anytime religion is mentioned within the confines of government today people cry, "Separation of Church and State". Many people think this statement appears in the first amendment of the U.S. Constitution and therefore must be strictly enforced. However, the words: "separation", "church", and "state" do not even appear in the first amendment. The first amendment reads, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..." The statement about a wall of separation between church and state was made in a letter on January 1, 1802, by Thomas Jefferson to the Danbury Baptist Association of Connecticut. The congregation heard a widespread rumor that the Congregationalists, another denomination, were to become the national religion. This was very alarming to people who knew about religious persecution in England by the state established church. Jefferson made it clear in his letter to the Danbury Congregation that the separation was to be that government would not establish a national religion or dictate to men how to worship God. Jefferson's letter from which the phrase "separation of church and state" was taken affirmed first amendment rights. Jefferson wrote:

I contemplate with solemn reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church and State.

The reason Jefferson choose the expression "separation of church and state" was because he was addressing a Baptist congregation; a denomination of which he was not a member. Jefferson wanted to remove all fears that the state would make dictates to the church. He was establishing common ground with the Baptists by borrowing the words of Roger Williams, one of the Baptist's own prominent preachers.

[kdown]

The First Amendment
The Constitution of the United States of America
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof: or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

If there is any fixed star in our constitutional constellation, it is that NO official, high or petty, can prescribe what shall be orthodox in politics, nationalism, religion or other matters of opinion or force citizens to confess by word or act their faith therein, If there are ANY circumstances which permit an exception, they do not now occur to us." United States Supreme Court (1943) West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette, 319 US 624.

[stinkerbelle]

some horrorfying info and photos ponto thank you for the extra info...dont forget these criminal acts perpatrated on traped human beings(including children) are brought to us by g.w.bush and his "culture of life"...newdow is a patriot...we are at war with religious fundamentalism we dont need to practice it ourselves or we will become just like them...

[dpolley]

some horrorfying info and photos ponto thank you for the extra info...dont forget these criminal acts perpatrated on traped human beings(including children) are brought to us by g.w.bush and his "culture of life"...newdow is a patriot...we are at war with religious fundamentalism we dont need to practice it ourselves or we will become just like them...

Oh come on! That guy is as much an American patriot as Fidel Castro. You know stink, if you cut through all of the crap you throw out about Bush, you can't find anything to complain about on this subject. What makes "Under God" or "In God we trust" so wrong in your mind, other than the fact that you want to be combative and slam people who are in the majority? Free speech goes both ways guy!

[Chuck]

The First Amendment
The Constitution of the United States of America
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof: or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.


Why we have this Amendment is so that the Government does pick sides and remains unbias to serve "Freedom For All". Example.

If the Governments stand point was that the Jewish faith was the religion of choice then us Christians would not have a legal grounds to complain if the only holidays where based around the Jewish faith.

In a well ordered Government that respects everyones rights they cannot have an legally established religion.

The word's "in God we Trust" takes a covered opinion. Christians Trust their God. Muslims trust their God. Satanic Worshiper trust their God. The only people that are not honored by this statement is the atheist.

Religion is only subjective reality. It is solely depended on where and how you were raised.

Religion has no place in Government decisions. It steals from "Freedom For All"

[stinkerbelle]

i am sorry you feel that way dpolley i was only trying to point out that you cant declare war on "islamofacisim" and talk about "crusades" and a "culture of life" while using chemical weapons on innocent civilians doing so might be viewed as a religious war by a certain large portion of the planets population....newdow is a patriot...when we are faced with wacked out religious fundamentalists who are willing to crash airplanes into buildings and kill thousands we as the light of the world need to be an example not part of the problem our founding fathers were well aware of the pitfalls of religion influencing world events and any modern government that puts that out there is crazy...we need to be above the frey rather than part of it....what is more patriotic than saying what you believe?...if your god is such a great and all knowing god then he will be able to see what is in your heart...you remember the story of jesus kicking the money changers out of the temple i believe jesus would not aprove of "in god we trust" on money...i am an atheist...i hope that we as a species can see our way out of this mess...and remember dpolley there was a woman that i am sure was viewed as unpatriotic and her ideas went against the accepted norms of the majority she simply wanted to sit down on a bus ride home her "combative" ideas made the world a better place

[dpolley]

Unbelievable! What does Rosa Parks have to this thread?? Stop dragging things into the conversation that have nothing to do with what we're discussing. I know you are entitled to your opinion, but don't expect me not to disagree with the fairytale you're spinning.

[stinkerbelle]

rosa parks has everything to do with this thread...you are saying that newdow is outside of acceptable norms i am saying when rosa parks did her patriotic duty plenty of people thought how dare she we are the majority...well guess what the constitution is there to protect the no good minority...from guess who?

[mark]

mark you are downright offensive in your own special and socialy acceptable way...what is that which makes a cesspool stink? is it a president who lies about w.m.d.

............you know......if the Prez lied about WMD, he was right along with most of the dems too. They TOO voted for the war--reading the same intelligence. Check it out for yourself.


religion is personal and has no place in government or on money.........mind your business.....

............that's one of the main problems with Christians today....we are "minding our own business" too much. If every Christian in America actually spoke out against this type of nonsense....&.....voted accordingly, there would be a lot less of this type on nonsense going on..................see ya mark

[stinkerbelle]

I don't see the gov't endorsing any specific religion. "In God We Trust" is endorsed by almost every protestant religion.

BTW, just where would America be without the endorsement of religion?

If all religion were banned as Newdow wants, only the hoodlums would be in control. The belief in God is the only thing that keeps America from turning into a cesspool...............see ya mark

i dont like the reference to hoodlums ...what you were saying is that atheist are less than humane and rob kill and pillage....i am an atheist for christ everyday i try to do something for my fellow human not because god wants me to but because it is the right thing to do...religion does far more harm than good it allows people to feel they are better than others...for no other reason than they think they know god better than the next guy...newdow is a patriot and a great american... history will show that...and what do you mean by nonsense????...

[Chuck]

............you know......if the Prez lied about WMD, he was right along with most of the dems too. They TOO voted for the war--reading the same intelligence. Check it out for yourself.


Not fair. Congress voted on the information suppiled to them. They where not the suppliers of the information.



............that's one of the main problems with Christians today....we are "minding our own business" too much. If every Christian in America actually spoke out against this type of nonsense....&.....voted accordingly, there would be a lot less of this type on nonsense going on..................see ya mark

Allowing others the rights to their beliefs without forcing a religion on them is not nonsense.

[mark]

and what do you mean by nonsense????...

.............nonsense ( I'm sure this will fire some folks up ) is my generic term for activities that are going on such as ..... prayer banned in schools, trying to remove "In God We Trust" off coinage, allowing child molesters to go free due to privacy rights..& on & on.

These type of things our grandparents never had to deal with, because America then--- was a Christian moral nation of honest people. Some of you may say, aaah mark, they just kept that stuff in the closet then.

OK, I'll give you that. At least it wasn't acceptable to bring it out in the open as it is now.

I'm afraid the #'s of Christian moral honest people are getting less & less everyday...................see ya mark

[dpolley]

rosa parks has everything to do with this thread...you are saying that newdow is outside of acceptable norms i am saying when rosa parks did her patriotic duty plenty of people thought how dare she we are the majority...well guess what the constitution is there to protect the no good minority...from guess who?
Sorry, she doesn't. Loosely binding completely different events together and magically declaring them the same does not make it so. There is no way that you can compare Rosa Parks' place in American history with your buddy Newdow (or newbum). Wake up; You're dreaming again.

[stinkerbelle]

you are saying forcing the myth that there is a god and "in god we trust "down every citizens throat wether they chose to believe the myth or not ...is not the same as the myth that white people are endowed with special rights given to them by the same god you are endorsing and that the cursed sons and daughters of ham were forced to give up their seats on public transportation....i live in a secular nation that celebrates diversity...i dont know where mark and dpolley live...newdow is a patriot deserving respect...lots of people fought integration change is painfull...newdow is ahead of the curve...

[Groundhog]

This is a waste of time. You will never be able to reason with religious fanatics when it comes to other peoples rights. They have never learned how to read a myth correctly and will continue to act out in our physical world what should be going on inside their own hearts. The sad part is that they not only **** themselves, but the rest of us as well.

[bballgirl45]

There is one thing you dont have to say the Pledge of Allegiance if you dont want to its up to you so why should it matter?

[dpolley]

This is a waste of time. You will never be able to reason with religious fanatics when it comes to other peoples rights. They have never learned how to read a myth correctly and will continue to act out in our physical world what should be going on inside their own hearts. The sad part is that they not only **** themselves, but the rest of us as well.
Typical response from you Groundhog. For what it's worth, I'm not a religious fanatic, as you put it, but I do know right from wrong, and I also know what this country (you know, the one that gives you the right to exercise your freedom of speech whenever, or however you please, right or wrong) was founded on. Just because my views don't coincide with yours gives you no right to slam everyone that gets in your way! Your opinions go a long way in showing what is not right in this country today. Religious fanaticism is an easy charge to make by people like yourself who think that anything or any comment that mentions God is an affront to you personally. I've said it before; free speech goes both ways. Get used to it. You're not going to get me to shut up any easier than I'll get you to shut up (although, that would be nice). Also, your use of **** pretty much sums up the mentality of the people who either do not believe in God, or want to put down anyone and everyone that does, and isn't afraid to stand up for what they believe in!
Later.....

[stinkerbelle]

dpolley what exactly is "not right" right about our country????... and what do you mean by " **** " you are forcing me to think up bad words

[Chuck]

free speech goes both ways. Get used to it. You're not going to get me to shut up any easier than I'll get you to shut up (although, that would be nice).


Well said.

Just a reminder to allow everyone their Right to speech with the fear of ridicule.

If someone makes a post, we need to let them have their say and walk away sometimes.

Agree to disagree as mark always says.

[GirlColumbo]

bet newdow dont have any problem spending such offensive money.

[Anonymous Coward]

i was only trying to point out that you cant declare war on "islamofacisim" and talk about "crusades" and a "culture of life" while using chemical weapons on innocent civilians doing so might be viewed as a religious war by a certain large portion of the planets population....

Excuse me Stinkerbell... what would you call Sudam's use of chemical weapons? It is well known that HE used women and children for testing chemical agents on, including "the white stuff". Is he a patriot for Islam?
He did this for religous reasons.

[Anonymous Coward]

you are saying forcing the myth that there is a god and "in god we trust "down every citizens throat wether they chose to believe the myth or not ...

Take out a paper bill. Is "In God We Trust" written on it? If so, did you go to the store and use that money for goods? If you don't like it so much, then why do you use it? By having you spend it, then you are supporting it. If it is so offensive to you why do you help support it? Do you think that this "patriot" has not used money to get him where he is?
Go live in the woods, become self sufficient, and use no money with those words on them and then you can say that you "hate" those words.
Then you will live in a world that has no one to disagree with you.

This country needs to teach TOLERANCE NOT ACCEPTANCE. America needs to know that they are not the only way life is lived in the world. You do not need to accept people in the USA you just need to TOLLERATE the fact that sometimes people do not agree.

[Anonymous Coward]

bet newdow dont have any problem spending such offensive money.

You and I are on the same page!

[mark]

This country needs to teach TOLERANCE NOT ACCEPTANCE. America needs to know that they are not the only way life is lived in the world. You do not need to accept people in the USA you just need to TOLLERATE the fact that sometimes people do not agree.

............Extremely WELL SAID !! I couldn't agree more.............see ya mark

[Eddie]

i support newdow the founding fathers put in the seperation of church and state for a reason (afganastan,iran examples of religion in charge) they were not stupid people they knew religion is always used to divide people not to unite..."in god we trust"...is a modern addition...the first dollars motto was..."mind your business"..."under god"...was a way to tell the godless russians we were better than them ....newdow is a real patriot....religion is personal and should stay inside churches

The founding fathers wanted to keep the state out of the church, not the church out of the state. Newdow should move to Russia if you ask me.
As for religion staying in churches, this world would be a lot better off if the churches doors stayed wide open and we put God in everything we do.

[GirlColumbo]

Well we could take out In God We Trust on the money non believers use! and what would that solve? nothing, just like taking it out all together would solve nothing, then ya'll non belivers would have to come up with something else to gripe about.
I am not a religeous fanatic either. BUT I DO BELIEVE IN GOD! and as an American who trust in GOD you will never take that away from me, and so what if you did, GOD will take care of me, WHO WILL TAKE CARE OF YOU? Maybe one of them monkeys we came from or that big ole glob of bubbling ooze from the big bang
ha ha ha i can see either of those now blessing non belivers, giving them peace of mind.
how do you explain our intricate brains and body systems? did we just happen by chance to be the way we are? Now if you really take some time to comtemplate just how remarkable the human is, then it is possible you might come to realize GOD does exist. you cannot come up with any other logical answer other than a higher being. It is so astonishing that even GOD knows how the non beliver thinks, and like it or not, believe it or not, he has a plan for you too unless you change your way of thinking. His instructions werent to become a certain religion, just belive, is all he ask.
What I dont understand is why atheist are so adamant in not wanting to belive in GOD. Wouldnt it be better to go through life knowing HE is there in the good and the bad, as opposed to there not being a GOD to help ease our earthly pain?
Ever watch a child or elderly person dying? GOD sure does send down his Angels for them. ANd let me tell you this, if you are lucky enough to be in the same room, the hair on the back of your neck will stand up, and you can feel the light warm the room.
now you that dont believe, you will never convince me there is not a GOD! and if you dont stop trying to take HIM out of everything, then he WILL be the answer to the problem for you.................HE will end it all, and you will not even be here to fret about it. Is that what you want?

[GirlColumbo]

For all it is worth I would wager Rosa Parks spent a lot of time talking to her Lord and Savior before she even thought about taking that very important first step.

[mark]

........................very well said Girlcolumbo...........see ya mark

[GirlColumbo]

hey mark, can you believe we fiinally agree on something after all this time? LOL I think it is so heart wrenching that some folks just dont get it. I know many of us here have different ideas on some issues, and many of us have different spiritual beliefs, but when it comes down to the bottom line, we all understand who is really in charge of our minds and our America. You ever read how horrible madalyn o'hairs atheist life really was. who would want to live in such misery. she had such a hate filled life, so full of herself and her non beliefs.greed and hate sure caught up with her, her son and her neice.
sinner that i am, I know someone has to be watching out for me, i feel it in my own heart and i know with all my being that God knows my mind, my thoughts and ideas, and he has a way of protecting me from myself. many years ago i may have given thought to the atheists way of thinking, but i have seen too much to know far better than that. like i said if one really thinks about how truly amazing GOD is, then they too will open their minds and hearts to his way. i know i could not have gotten through a tough life, so many deaths of close family members from the very young to grandparents if GOD didnt give me some kind of peace of mind. God does not cause grief, mankind does, it is GOD who gets us through mans stupidty and hate. Someday, as we are promised, we will know the answers to all we seek, but right now I hope to find my way closer to God through is Son.

[mark]

, but when it comes down to the bottom line, we all understand who is really in charge of our minds and our America.


............once again, I totally AGREE with your thinking, especially with the above line! Very well said!! ..................see ya mark

[HARLEYDUDE]

The Bottom Line Is !!!!!!! We Don't Own America Anymore .......

[mark]

The Bottom Line Is !!!!!!! We Don't Own America Anymore .......


..................if we Don't own America anymore.....than who does own it?? .............see ya mark

[Foxy]

The Bottom Line Is !!!!!!! We Don't Own America Anymore .......

Care to elaborate for us blondes?

[Chuck]

I can,

Saudis 15%
Japan 5%
China 1% and growing fast

If any 1 of these countries pulled out, all their finances the US Economy would crumble.

50% of this countries money is held by 5% of the people. That is money that is not or won't be circulated (Possibly) ever again.

Only 30% of this countries wealth is circulated among the common man. That is people like you an me. The ones that will be paying off that 8 trillion dollar debt.

These figures are gathered from popular sites searched on google and where none partisan figures.

[GirlColumbo]

still yet those people, Chuck, are living in America, on AMERICAN SOIL, that makes them AMERICNAn CITIZENS whether they like it or not, and yes we still own this country. THANK YOU AMERICAN SOLDIERS PAST AND PRESENT!!!

[Chuck]

Saudi Arabia, Japan and China are not in the US.

I only added that 50% of Americas wealth is controlled by 5% of the people to demonstrate how much money is in common circulation. 30% is not much.

[GirlColumbo]

oops sorry chuck, I am proof postive that one must read the entire post before firing back a reply. kymhumblybegsforgivness

[Chuck]

LOL. Fire back anytime. I love it.

[kdown]

This is all I have to say on the subject

[Chuck]

So that tells me I have to do everything your way or leave. Sounds very un-American to me. lol

[kdown]

Definitions of un-american on the Web:

considered contrary to the best interests of the United States

I don't think so. Saying Love It Or Leave It seems patriot to me.

[Chuck]

I love it, just not through your eyes. I was born here but have no Birth Certificate so I can't get a passport to leave it. I don't really want to.

My goal is to help us all work and play well together. Sorta like a team. Even though the term, Love it or Leave it was originate by a democrat I don't support it or like it.

It implies that a person is a traitor to our nation because of their beliefs being different or they are just slightly unhappy with the way things are being done.

It also implies that the person making the comment lives in a perfect world and they like everything just as it is.

I just don't think it fits in any conversation cause it holds a false truth for both sides.

[kdown]

Lighten up Chuck
Things were kinda boring. I love getting you stirred up.............LMAO

[Chuck]

LMAO, I was lightning up. I was reaching for something to say. Everything else I could think of was way bad.

I did like the picture.

[FreeOurPOWs]

This guy wants to be the next Madalyn Murray OHair. He is a publicity hound and a useful idiot for the Anti-Christ Lovers Union whose mission it is to remove God completely from the public square in America. This is, of course, the mission of the world domination of communism. He is a nothing and not worthy of discussion if it were not for all the attention that the ACLU allies, the American Mainstream Media, give him.

O'Hair's son William announced his conversion to Christianity on Mother's Day in 1980 and became an outspoken evangelist for his new faith. We all know what happened to O'Hair. Does Newdow know? Heh heh heh.

I wouldn't be this guy when he meets the Creator. Whew!

[mark]

This guy wants to be the next Madalyn Murray OHair. He is a publicity hound and a useful idiot for the Anti-Christ Lovers Union whose mission it is to remove God completely from the public square in America. This is, of course, the mission of the world domination of communism. He is a nothing and not worthy of discussion if it were not for all the attention that the ACLU allies, the American Mainstream Media, give him.

O'Hair's son William announced his conversion to Christianity on Mother's Day in 1980 and became an outspoken evangelist for his new faith. We all know what happened to O'Hair. Does Newdow know? Heh heh heh.

I wouldn't be this guy when he meets the Creator. Whew!


............Me either! .............see ya mark