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C.Wayne
October 5th, 2005, 12:18 PM
There has been so much controversy about the commandments. The Supreme Court ruled that the commandments could not be displayed in Pulaski County, Kentucky courthouse, but they could be displayed on the State Capital grounds in Texas. The difference was the ones in Texas had been there twenty years and were among many other displays that influenced our laws. The Ten Commandments in Pulaski were in the room all alone and were intended to make a statement for the Christians, as they were from the King James Bible. Of course, what is interesting to me about all of this is that most Christians do not follow the commandments. We don’t worship Yahweh, we don’t worship on the Sabbath, and we don’t take seriously the commandment to make no graven image. Christians worship the Lord and Father of Jesus Christ, God’s only Son. Yahweh is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and uniquely revealed in 613 commandments of the Hebrew Scriptures. The Sabbath is Saturday, the day God rested from his work in creation. And Christians put up all sorts of graven images in the form of crosses and crucifixes to represent the suffering Christ and the Risen Christ. So most Christians don’t follow the commandments. We only follow them if we reinterpret them, so that the first commandment becomes worship of God the Father, Christ the Son, and the Holy Spirit; God in three persons blessed Trinity. The cross is a symbol to Christians, as it represents the risen and crucified Christ, but it is a graven image as far as the Hebrew scriptures are concerned. And Christians say Sunday is the Sabbath, but the Ten Commandments understand the Sabbath to be Saturday. So of the religious four, most Christians only follow the fourth. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord in vain.

Now what I have just said is as painful to me as the fact that I stole that comb. I still regret I stole it. I’d like to make it up, but there is no more Begley’s. So what we Christians have done is we have reinterpreted the Ten Commandments, so that we worship God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. We say that representations that point beyond themselves to Christ, like the cross and the crucifix, are valid religious symbols. We say that we are to honor Sunday as the Sabbath because it was on Sunday that God raised Jesus from the dead.

So now we are down to the last 6. If all parents were like my parents, and probably your parents, they certainly should be honored. But there is no reason for the children of Dennis Raider to honor their father. By all accounts he was an excellent parent, scout leader, church member, but he was also a serial killer. I am sure they grieve for him, so I would say honor parents that lead lives that are worthy of honor, and report parents that abuse their wives and their children. How many children have stood between their father and their mother to keep the father from hitting their mother? Honor the parents that are worthy of honor.

Now we are down to the last five. As far as I am concerned, these are the ones that support all the attention they receive. These are the ones that everyone ought to follow, no matter if they be Jewish, Muslim, atheistic, Christian, Buddhist or a follower of Confucianism or whatever. And what are these. Thou shalt not murder. Originally, this referred only to personal violence. It did refer to war and it did refer to punishment by the state. Many though take the commandments to be a living document, so that Christians may reinterpret them so that they are valid for Christians as I have tried to show above. So for many, thou shalt not murder becomes that shalt not kill in war nor in via capital punishment. The Quakers are the best representation of this tradition. It is why most Christians are pro-life and against euthanasia.

Thou shalt not commit adultery. Martin Luther said that when these were written people married so young that adultery was the most common form of sexual immorality, but in modern the world, and he was writing in the 15th century, we should regard the commandment in the broadest way possible so that it should involve being chaste, not only in our actions, but also in our thoughts and in our speech. And furthermore, we should do what we can to see that our friends and neighbors remain chaste. We should do everything we could to discourage pornography, degrading jokes, and flirtation.

Thou shalt not bear false witness. This refers to court proceedings where you swear to tell the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. But many say it should also include lying. Thou shalt not lie. It has always bothered me that in our culture it is OK to lie, but not under oath. I believe that a person should not lie at all. There should be no black lies. A black lie is when you state something that is obviously not true. But also there should be no white lies. When I bought the comb and implied that I had stolen it, I was involved in a white lie. You know that I was never close to those boys because I had lied to them. You can only be close when you tell the truth. There is no intimacy when relationships are based on lies.

Thou shalt not steal. Martin Luther said that stealing never pays. It doesn’t matter how much you pile up, the loss of integrity makes all the money in the world a sham. What have you gained if you acquire lots of money and in the process lose your soul? Everyone who steals loses his soul. That is why I didn’t steal the comb. Once when I was at Transylvania, I left a restaurant without paying. I went back to Hazelrigg Hall, got in bed, and remember that I hadn’t prayed. I thought, “I will go tomorrow and pay,” but I couldn’t go to sleep. So I got up out of bed, went back to the restaurant and paid the bill. I feel sorry for people who have to steal, but I am especially saddened by corporate thieves who take advantage by price gouging, or insider trading, or political payoffs.

Thou shalt not covet. Who in here doesn’t place more reliance on money that we do on God. Who is not more concerned to be smart than to rely on God. Who doesn’t covet that their child be a star in something. My wife covets a house of our own. My mother said my father loved our farm more than he loved her. Would you call that coveting? Some people covet a good golf game or bridge game. The truth is, we are all failed baseball players, even Pete Rose. And someday, even Derek Jeter will have to quit. You have heard all your life that if you work hard enough you can achieve anything. But the truth is there are some things that you and I cannot achieve. I like Larry King coveting to be a great singer, but it’s not going to happen. As far as I am concerned there is only one way to not covet. And that is to love the Lord more than grades and sports when you are young, to love the Lord more than sex and acceptance when you are a teenager, to love the Lord more than money and success when you are an adult.

The Ten Commandments are to die for, in my opinion. Love the Lord you God, the Father of Jesus Christ, with all your heart and with all your mind. Keep in touch with God through prayer, meditation, and religious symbols that point to Christ, such as the cross and the crucifix. Honor the Lord’s Day by doing no work and taking a day of rest. Do not take the Lord’s name in vain. Honor parents that are worthy of honor and report parents who abuse their wives and their children. Do not murder. Advocate pro–life choices and avoid euthanasia, pray about becoming a pacifist. Do not commit adultery or any act that suggests sexual impropriety. Seek to be chaise in all relationships. Do not bear false witness. More do not lie. Do not steal in any form. Do not covet.

These are the Wayne Barnett 10 commandments for Christians. What you and I find when we study them is that we do not fulfill them. Only the arrogant and the ignorant, of which I used to be one, believe they follow them. There is only one way to follow them, and that way is by relying on the mercy of Christ. Lord have mercy on me a sinner, because in my heart I break one or more of the commandments daily.
John Perry said, “If you want to be a good Christian, follow the commandments.” If you want to be a good Christian, realize that you can only follow them as you turn over your life to Christ. Amen.

kdown
October 5th, 2005, 12:42 PM
I ain't touching this one with a ten foot pole.
Think I'll just stick to politics.

acoolmom777
October 5th, 2005, 04:34 PM
The way I see it, is times have changed since Moses brought the 10 commandments down from the mountain.
And I really think God was telling us to use the commandments as a guideline in our everyday Christian / ? Life.
I as a Christian, consider myself a little more modern in my ways and thinking. I for one have grown tired fighting
over where the “10 Commandments” should or shouldn’t be placed. They were written for you to carry in your heart
and soul. I try and teach my kids to be good people. To respect and stand up for what they believe in. To respect God,
his creations and the world that is now around us each and everyday. To celebrate life and the blessings that we earn.
I also believe, in the after life and that we learn from each of them and make fewer mistakes as we go through the next.
And when the end of time comes we will be rewards by our works here on this earth. So therefore if we were to use all that
“fighting” energy towards other life energy this world would be a better place for all.

kybikertrash
October 5th, 2005, 05:04 PM
Amen! I also believe everyone should quit fighting over where to display the 10 Commandments. They should be in your heart and if you want to have them displayed somewhere as a reminder of the basic rules to follow in life, how about displaying them on your living room wall where you will see them everyday?

If you want your child to learn the Commandments, quit fighting to display them in their school and teach them to your child yourself by your own actions and words.
And if you feel that isn't enough, then send them to a christian school.

And if you want your child to learn about Christ and you don't feel you are wise enough to teach them then TAKE them to church (don't send them).

stinkerbelle
October 5th, 2005, 06:30 PM
i agree with wayne ... and m.d.s should stop washing their hands before surgery...science should be outlawed as it goes against the idea of a creator...america should go to war with any other nation that is not christian...you should be jailed for not being a christian and tortured...all children should be made to pray at school to Jesus only...everyone should be forced to go to church seven days a week...we should change the name of our country to the Christian United States of America...diplomacy would be simplified anyone who dissagrees with us is demonised and nuke worthy...no other religions would be tolerated(as we all know this nation was created by christians anyway)...we could have a single party system of government...peaceniks could be jailed for their unpatriotic and unchristian behavior...the draft could be reinstated so all the young people would have a chance to participate in the great christian crusade...women would be seen and not heard...what an exciting new christian america it would be!

acoolmom777
October 5th, 2005, 11:47 PM
i agree with wayne ... and m.d.s should stop washing their hands before surgery...science should be outlawed as it goes against the idea of a creator...america should go to war with any other nation that is not christian...you should be jailed for not being a christian and tortured...all children should be made to pray at school to Jesus only...everyone should be forced to go to church seven days a week...we should change the name of our country to the Christian United States of America...diplomacy would be simplified anyone who dissagrees with us is demonised and nuke worthy...no other religions would be tolerated(as we all know this nation was created by christians anyway)...we could have a single party system of government...peaceniks could be jailed for their unpatriotic and unchristian behavior...the draft could be reinstated so all the young people would have a chance to participate in the great christian crusade...women would be seen and not heard...what an exciting new christian america it would be!

Here let me lend you my glasses...<hands them to stinker>
Because what I have quoted you saying is not in agreement with wayne...
<Hello knocking on the skull of stinkerbelle,s avatar...when you are done, please return my glasses, we wouldn't want you to go to **** for stealing>.. :D

stinkerbelle
October 6th, 2005, 01:39 AM
thank you acoolmom777 you did open my eyes...and thank you wayne...i am an atheist for christ...well at least philosophicaly...as an atheist i have no hope but in my fellow humans and there is plenty of hope in humanity...i do agree with wayne...and i hope that more christians feel like wayne...if we are a christian nation let us export love let our diplomacy be compassion...we need to be the lighthouse to the world!...christianity has been perverted by people wanting power at any cost...wayne your ministry touched my heart, and thank you acoolmom777 for those eyeglasses...
sincerly
stinkerbelle

acoolmom777
October 6th, 2005, 08:45 AM
Stinkerbelle…I have at least 3 friends that are Atheist, and for all I know you may be one of them….let me tell you we have some major convos on this subject….but one thing that we all agree on is Christianity has changed over the years and not really in a good way. A lot of Christians are more whos, who, and that is really sad. I shouldn’t really say just Christians but all people are more out for their self and what they can have.12 years ago we moved up here and before that we had the “Big” house and lots of land, fancy cars, Big business, parties, etc, etc….then we almost lost our son….it makes you put your faith and priorities in check. Now we live like there is no tomorrow, and life is great. I don’t miss all that fancy stuff, and life is really good.
Each religion has its own set of rules / laws / Commandments…and no matter what they are…if each just used the basics of them I am almost sure we would see a great…good.. change in humanity.

P.S. Keep the glasses I have an extra pair…. ;) :)

lauralee
October 6th, 2005, 09:53 AM
one day at a time with my higher power has changed my life forever. i was raised in church, raised my children in church, but there was a hidden demon in my family, alcoholism. i am a christian and practice the commandments as much as i possibly can,but it took al-non to open my eyes to living in today. the 12 steps work and have changed my outlook on life. my higher power is in charge and i have to work on me and me only and i am a changed person.

MichaelB
October 6th, 2005, 12:34 PM
I'm with you Kdown. I'll stick with politics because the consequences are less binding.

kdown
October 6th, 2005, 12:50 PM
Spoken like a "reformed" politician.
I always knew that one day you'd see the light. LOL

Groundhog
October 6th, 2005, 02:02 PM
The problem with most of the Christians in America is that they do not follow the teachings of Christ. The Ten Commandments for a follower of Jesus has no meaning. The Christ himself told them that the greatest of the commandments was to love the Lord thy God with all thy heart...etc, and the second greatest commandment was love thy neighbor as thyself. The Ten Commandments are for the Jewish people, not for Christians. Why then, do the millions and millions of Americans want the commandments posted. Answer...because it allows them to hate other people and justify their hatred with the commandments. If you follow the two commandments given by the Christ, you can't point fingers at other people, rather lone burn them at the stake, stone them, commit genocide against whole other races...etc, etc, etc, etc, etc. And people wonder why I became a pagan.

acoolmom777
October 6th, 2005, 04:58 PM
Please tell me that is NOT really the reason you are a pagan.....that it goes more deeper than that...... :eek:

kay
October 7th, 2005, 07:44 AM
Isn't America grand? We have the freedom to voice opinions about religion and politics. I never want to argue them, because I think that is useless. We can read the Bible until the cows come home and each of us will have a different interpretation. I'm just thankful to hear some people who read it and believe it.
Thanks for letting me give my opinion.

Chuck
October 7th, 2005, 08:37 AM
Isn't America grand? We have the freedom to voice opinions about religion and politics. I never want to argue them, because I think that is useless. We can read the Bible until the cows come home and each of us will have a different interpretation. I'm just thankful to hear some people who read it and believe it.
Thanks for letting me give my opinion.

I could not agree more. Very well said. Debating is fun but I really enjoy read everyones opinions more.

Chuck

Groundhog
October 7th, 2005, 12:25 PM
Hi Coolmom. The reason that I became a pagan was because I don't believe in Christianity, although I do believe in the Christ. It happened a short time after I graduated from college, and I came to a point in my life that either the Bible was true, or it wasn't. I spent a lot of time studing different historical accounts, and when the smoke cleared, I decided that it was not historical fact based on truth. Now, with that said, if the Bible is read as a metaphor, then it is true, just as all spiritual paths and religious beliefs are true. What we have, however, is a religion that attempts to claim to be a fact, and because it has been believed as a fact, millions upon millions of people have suffered at the hands of the followers of the God of Love...for their own good, of course. The fact is, if the Christian religion is true, then not one person would have every met thier death at the hands of the Christians and justified with the word of God, and please don't try to argue that those people weren't really Christian...because they were. I just wonder what excuse people will use 200 years from now to defend the evil that is being done today by those who claim to be the children of God. As long as there is a chosen people, or a master race, or whatever, there will always be a trail of tears for someone, there will always be an oven waiting to consume the bodies, there will always be mass graves that hold the remains of whole families, and all that will remain behind will be the signs of the passing of the beast and the destruction it leaves wherever it goes. That is the reason I became a Pagan, a Wiccian, and a Witch. I could not have lived with myself if I had remained a Christian. We have something better to offer the world...and this is just the beginning. The message of the Christ...this we will keep, for it is a beautiful message to humanity from the holy spirit. To bad that for the most part it has been wasted on animals.

acoolmom777
October 7th, 2005, 04:36 PM
Very well written....but it seems you may have forgotten something....

Christ nor Christianity nor Religions kill.....people kill in the name of...which is not right and will have to pay in the long run. That’s like saying all Pagans still are into sacrificing human life to Moloch, the ancient pagan God of child sacrifice. Now that’s not what you do right? See as a Christian I would never consider taking a life in the name of my God. Now as a Christian I use the 10 Commandments and Christ’s teachings as a guideline for my life, but as a solitary practitioner, I respect all of the creators, and their creations.
So even when I disagree with someone I will never judge them, for thats not my place. But I also won't blame all for the evil works of a few.

Groundhog
October 8th, 2005, 07:46 PM
Hi Coolmom. Very true, but for people to kill others in the name of some religion, the religion has to have built into it the means by which its followers can and will justify their actions. If its not there then they can't go back to chapter whatever and verse whatever and say, "See here...God says it is alright for us to do this, or this is God's commandment that we do this." That is what we as Neo-Pagans are doing. We are sorting thru all that has been passed down to us as "Spiritual Teaching" and throwing away what is useless to the postive spiritual growth of our world. We keep only what is worth keeping...the rest is being sent to the city dump where it belongs.

annieap
October 8th, 2005, 11:37 PM
Corruption begins when individuals interpret the Bible to suit themselves or to correspond with preconceived thoughts.

acoolmom777
October 9th, 2005, 01:53 AM
One of the Commandments is "Thy shall NOT Kill"....so tell me where in the Bible a Christian can go and justify that action? :confused:

lauralee
October 9th, 2005, 11:18 AM
ECCLESIASTES read chapter 3 (verse 3) MARK chapter 13 verses7-8 speaks of wars also 1 corintians 15, 25-26 2 Corintians 15, 25-26 and Revelations 12. 7, 9-10 Isaiah 31.4 how about the soldiers who have died so we can live in a land of freedom, to be sitting here on Sunday morning not worrying about a bomb or afraid to go to a church of OUR choice any time we please!

acoolmom777
October 11th, 2005, 11:43 AM
ECCLESIASTES read chapter 3 (verse 3) MARK chapter 13 verses7-8 speaks of wars also 1 corintians 15, 25-26 2 Corintians 15, 25-26 and Revelations 12. 7, 9-10 Isaiah 31.4 how about the soldiers who have died so we can live in a land of freedom, to be sitting here on Sunday morning not worrying about a bomb or afraid to go to a church of OUR choice any time we please!

:confused: :mad: :rolleyes:
ECCLESIASTES read chapter 3 (verse 3)
Verse 1-10 - To expect unchanging happiness in a changing world must end in disappointment. To bring ourselves to our state in life, is our duty and wisdom in this world. God's whole plan for the government of the world will be found altogether wise, just, and good. Then let us seize the favorable opportunity for every good purpose and work. The time to die is fast approaching. Thus labor and sorrow fill the world. This is given us, which we may always have something to do; none were sent into the world to be idle.

A Time for Everything (not talking about just Christians, but the cycle of the world itself)

MARK chapter 13 verses7-8
The Destruction of the Temple and Signs before the End

1 Corinthians 15, 25-26
The Resurrection of the Dead

2 Corinthians 15, 25-26
It only goes to 13 ???????

Revelations 12. 7, 9-10
That is the war in Heaven when Satan and his following Angels fell.

Isaiah 31.4
That’s the warnings about relying on Egypt

These are my thoughts and the way “I” get the scriptures, you have to look and study them yourself to get what you need from them. And some are written in parallels, its like anything else…read between the lines.

(This is just an example, not meant to offend anyone, this is NOT how I feel, I would NEVER say anything to hurt you are your thoughts, I believe in the Law with all my soul.)
Just like if I were to take the Wiccan law of “Harm None”… and say well I can do this spell/chant on them cuz it won’t harm them, just **** them off, so it’s ok if I do it.

It’s all in the way to think, speak and act….

lauralee
October 11th, 2005, 02:27 PM
the bible does say study to show thyself approved 2Timothy 2:15 which i believe we study and in prayer ask for Gods guidance and isn't it wonderful to live in a country where we are allowed to study and worship our God the way we want? after all isn't what we do in this life passed on from generation to generation and only i answer to
God for the things i've done?

acoolmom777
October 11th, 2005, 03:10 PM
Now you lost me I thought we were talking about the Commandments and then the one"Thy shall not kill" and that Christians don't just kill in the name of God....so now I'm lost as to where you are going with this... :confused:

lauralee
October 11th, 2005, 03:53 PM
i'm sorry, just agreeing with you on studying the word and how i look at the scritures as you pointed out this morning, i read them differently then you i guess.

acoolmom777
October 11th, 2005, 04:36 PM
You know if you stop and think about it...weather it be the Christian Commandments, Wiccan Rede, or The Noble Eightfold Path of Buddha…etc, etc, etc,.... we are all striving for one purpose, to spend the afterlife in a better place.... I always believed, if you go through life being true to yourself you will be rewarded in the afterlife with good things. And if you do evil you will reap evil in the afterlife.
I also think we are “spiritual beings” having human experiences and not “human beings” having spiritual experiences. I think that is why we all feel so strong about what we believe in. :)

TheMan
October 11th, 2005, 09:08 PM
If I loved my neighbor.. I'd have nobody to fight with about who's TV's too loud.. what fun would that be?

Groundhog
October 12th, 2005, 10:49 AM
Well said Coolmom...well said.