Is America Permanently Divided ?

[kdown]

Has America become a permanently divided country?

A reader, Jason McDougal, raises a disturbing point, which, among other things, suggests the unprecedented difficulties we face in trying to mount a Western defense against Islam, namely that half the West is already against the West:

Given that every nomination to the Supreme Court has been and forever will be a battle over cultural principles and ideological presuppositions, is the U.S. a country in perpetual warfare with itself? Every political and judicial appointment has been and will continue to be an ideological battleground.
Every police action, every media pronouncement, every entertainment piece, every economic policy decision--all these have become issues of betrayal, conflict, sell-out, etc. Absolutely everything in American life has become tinged with ideological implications. Such that whether one is a conservative or a liberal, one has to be on guard over one's perceptions. Almost everything now in American society is geared towards moving one in one direction or another.

Doesn't this show that Americans have arrived at a point in time and history in which society is in a state of perpetual war with itself?

And if this is the case, is America a "home" any longer in the sense of which the Bible speaks of a state of rest? The U.S. had been conceived as a haven of rest for those immigrants wearied and worn through worldly struggle.

But now it appears that the U.S. has become a battleground. Not only in the sense of which I speak above but also through groups that intend to remake America in their image. Latino groups in Texas and California that have indicated that their immigration status is really a reconquest of ancient Mexican territories. Or Muslims who assume that one day the U.S. will become an Islamic state as long as their birth rates outpace the native population.

It appears to me that given the cultural wars being fought in the U.S. on a daily basis, this country has become socially fractured and ideologically motivated to the point that there no longer exists a state of rest for it. In which case, where no rest exists, is there a home?

[MichaelB]

As I have said before that's the beauty of democracy. We've always been at war with ourselves and that's why, thank God, we have a Republic and not a pure Democracy. Too many loose cannons wandering around the country. Also, the only issue the Senate is concerned with related to Judicial appointments is abortion; either keeping or over-turning Roe v' Wade.

However, both Clinton and Bush have been the two (2) most politically polarizing Presidents in my lifetime. Is it because everyone wants to "move to the middle" and have no opinion on anything or consistently take the PC position?

[mark]

However, both Clinton and Bush have been the two (2) most politically polarizing Presidents in my lifetime. Is it because everyone wants to "move to the middle" and have no opinion on anything or consistently take the PC position?

....................I agree. What we need is another R. Reagan. Regardless of what you thought of his politics, he DID get in front of the cameras & "tell it like it is" & didn't care about their responses.

We don't see that in gov't anymore......................see ya mark

[Chuck]

Another R.Reagan is the last thing we need.

He is the father of the biggest national debt.
Many programs like "Star Wars" that cost trillions and came up empty.

If he ever would have told the truth he would have said:

"I will play on your fears and take all your money then give it to my friends"

Communism was force Fed to us as being the biggest threat to our lives for 50 years by both Dem's and Rep. So that we would be afraid.

The only thing that has changed is now communism is out and they now want us to fear all Muslims.

We are being played as suckers for our cash and the stealing or our Rights by both parties.

[ponto]

Your friends change, your enemies change,

Look at your family tree....who did you grandfather fear?.....who did your father fear?

In the last 60 years people in the U.S.A. have feared the japanese, cubans, koreans, vietnamese, germans, russians, muslims to name a few.

And what did we learn from all of this?

It was never about the everyday people, it was the leaders of these countries or groups that had their own agenda, trying to make a larger group that agreed with their vision of life on earth.

And now after all of this, people are beginning to fear the leaders of this country, state and city. Both legislative and judicial..............

This country was successful in the early days because of States Rights, (remember, England had gotten to big, so our forefathers left) and has gone down hill ever since the federal government has grown in size.

The federal government continues to set rules that override the local opinions of the everyday people in their local areas. Our "group" is getting to large again.


Mankind will always try to divide itself into smaller groups of like minded people.

It is only when someone trys to make the groups to large, that you run into problems.




Imagine there's no countries,
It isn't hard to do,
Nothing to kill or die for,
No religion too,
Imagine all the people
living life in peace...

Imagine no possessions,
I wonder if you can,
No need for greed or hunger,
A brotherhood of man,
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world...

You may say I'm a dreamer,
but I'm not the only one,
I hope some day you'll join me,
And the world will live as one.

[ponto]

You say you want a revolution, we all want to change the world.

You tell me that it's evolution, we all want to change the world.

But when you talk about destruction, don't you know you can count me out.

You say you got a real solution, we'd all love to see the plan.

You ask me for a contribution?

Well you know, we're doing what we can.

But when you want money for people with minds that hate, all I can tell you is brother you have to wait.

You say you'll change the constitution, we all want to change your head.

You tell me it's the institution, you better free your mind instead.

But if you go carrying pictures of __________, you ain't going to make it with anyone, anyhow.

[Chuck]

"Destruction" is it the 60's and the Beatles Revelation all over again?

[MichaelB]

Didn't those Beatle guys get extremely rich off those "protest", "utopian community" songs? The worst example of what to do or say can be found in the liberal, entertainment elite. Everything they do or say is for self-agrandizement and self-promotion.

[ponto]

They got all their money from people in their own little "group" of friends.

no money from the government.

You hit the nail on the head, people self promote in their own group. It is only when one goes outside of their group and legislate or try and change people by brute force do we have a problem.

[Groundhog]

I think that the best way to get rich is to become one of those sin-hating, foam at the mouth bible born again preachers and just tell everyone that Geesus wants them to give you their money. Tax free...what could be better.

[kdown]

I think the only way to get rich is to own your own printing press.

[MichaelB]

I don't think so groundhog. Ask Rev. Larry Davis of Cold Spring Baptist Church. He pleaded guilty today on tax evasion and fraud charges related to his stealing more than $750,000.00 from his church. eg. Jim Baker, Jimmy Swaggart, etc. I guess you can get rich but you can't stay rich because the flock will only let you fleece them for so long and I sure wouldn't want to answer to their boss for what they did.

[mark]

I think that the best way to get rich is to become one of those sin-hating, foam at the mouth bible born again preachers and just tell everyone that Geesus wants them to give you their money. Tax free...what could be better.

...............hmmmm, this is what I believe: ( from my Bible )

Malachi 3:8-11 (NIV)

8 "Will a man rob God? Yet you rob me.
"But you ask, 'How do we rob you?'
"In tithes and offerings. 9 You are under a curse—the whole nation of you—because you are robbing me. 10 Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. Test me in this," says the LORD Almighty, "and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that you will not have room enough for it. 11 I will prevent pests from devouring your crops, and the vines in your fields will not cast their fruit," says the LORD Almighty.

-----------------------

The pastor of that church will have to answer to someone much higher than I someday. I'm doing my part & getting my blessings. What the church leadership does with the money after I tithe is between them & God.

I wouldn't want to face that question that he will be asked someday.........


Mr. pastor, just what did you do with my money anyway?? ..............see ya mark

[mark]

Another R.Reagan is the last thing we need.

He is the father of the biggest national debt.
Many programs like "Star Wars" that cost trillions and came up empty.

We are being played as suckers for our cash and the stealing or our Rights by both parties.


.....ahhh, I'm going to have to disagree. When Reagan was prez, remember the dems had control of both houses. They are the ones who controlled spending in those days. Reagan gave us the biggest tax cut to get the economy rolling again. The problem then was.....the dems in Congress spent it as fast as it arrived. The dems lost control when the "Contract on America was organized in 1994.

I'm not saying it's any better now, in fact I agree with your last remark. Both parties are spending us into bankruptcy...............see ya mark

[kay]

The difference in the church I go to and some others, we have business meetings and we keep up with what money is given to our church and how the money is being spent. Our pastor gets a salary like any other type of employee. He does not have control over what is taken in and it does not all go to him.
When I hear these instances where ministers have stolen, I blame the congregation for not holding on and taking care of the purse strings. This is God's money and should be used to take care of God's house and God's business. That's just my opinion. Thanks as always for letting me give one.

[Chuck]

...............hmmmm, this is what I believe: ( from my Bible )

Malachi 3:8-11 (NOV)

8 "Will a man rob God? Yet you rob me.
"But you ask, 'How do we rob you?'
"In tithes and offerings. 9 You are under a curse—the whole nation of you—because you are robbing me. 10 Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. Test me in this," says the LORD Almighty, "and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that you will not have room enough for it. 11 I will prevent pests from devouring your crops, and the vines in your fields will not cast their fruit," says the LORD Almighty.

-----------------------

The pastor of that church will have to answer to someone much higher than I someday. I'm doing my part & getting my blessings. What the church leadership does with the money after I tithe is between them & God.

I wouldn't want to face that question that he will be asked someday.........


Mr. pastor, just what did you do with my money anyway?? ..............see ya mark

I like dis-agreeing with you Mark, lol You are intelligent and it makes very good conversation.

I believe Groundhog was referring to TV Preachers who rob little old Lady's but being on TV and begging them for money.
These shows should be removed from TV they steal from the LOCAL churches.
(That really should be a topic of it's own)

On the political side, history will tell that tale. We tend to be blind by peoples popularity. and I just be leave the actor had us fooled. He added the biggest nation debt ever in history with 40% going to other countries.

Sad that it really doesn't matter. We have went into a spending downhill spiral with possibly no way out.

The Government is borrowing more money. This means we can barrow more money. BAD NEWS on spending is that we have to pay off our own loans and the Govt. loans,,, Guess What,,, We have to pay those off too.

1% of the people control 40% of all this countries wealth now.
5% of the people control 75% of all this countries wealth.
Out of this 75% Wealth much of it is controlled by other countries with the Saudis being in the lead with 6% of that 75% wealth.

This is not a good thing. You can argue all day that they earned it but when you look at "balance and harmony",,, This basically destroys that.

[Groundhog]

Captain Kirk said it best when he asked...What does God need with a Starship? I say the same thing...What does God need with money? Makes you wonder don't it.

[kileyrowland74]

Back to the original question posited in this thread: Is America permanently divided? I think that Americans will always stick together when that's necessary (i.e. during Katrina -- of course, there was contention there, wasn't there?). Perhaps against a common, or valid enemy, as was the case with WWII. Other than that, I think that "yes," America is permanently divided.

I know that after the last election I felt totally . . . seperated from the majority of Americans. I come from a military family and was always taught that risking one's life in a war at the request of one's country MEANT something. I also thought that political dissention and speaking one's mind when one thought the government corrupt or abusive was patriotic (think the American Colonists vs. the American Tories). The last election put those naive patriotic notions to bed.

In the past, I loved to debate and I actually CARED what people thought -- I mean, I gave their opinions thoughtful consideration and remained open-minded even if I disagreed with them. I don't feel so much that way anymore. Now, I tend to think "Hey, I'm right, you're definitely wrong." LOL. Of course, I fight it. For example, I gave up on Christianity after it was highjacked by the right-wing, nutcase, Tory-minded fundies, so I force myself to volunteer with church groups just to remind myself that there are some good, humanity-loving Christians and Republicans and, yes, even neo-Tories/fundies left out there who don't believe in ramming their beliefs down others' throats and in keeping the church and the state separate.

I mean, if I don't think for myself, then I'm just another member of the Red Nation, right? Ha, ha. Making fans with every second! Kiley