100 male drug addicts wanted by Maysville

[ponto]

Maysville Mayor David Cartmell said on Tuesday Maysville is lobbying Transitions to build a center on 2.5 acres of secluded, vacant, industrial land adjacent to the Maysville Community and Technical College.

There's a newly built road with walking and bike paths and it's near the bus line and a connector road to the AA Highway, he said.

Cartmell said the city already has agencies that provide mental-health and rehabilitation services, and that there had been virtually no opposition to the recovery center at a public hearing earlier this year.

"We think it's a fit," Cartmell said. "I guarantee it would be the best location."

Meanwhile, as Latonia residents fight to keep the recovery center out of their neighborhood.

The Covington City Commission heartily agrees, and on Tuesday passed a resolution supporting Maysville's bid for the recovery center.

"I hate to see a city (Maysville) deprived of something they want," :rolleyes: said Commissioner Jerry Bamberger of Covington


http://news.kypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050518/NEWS02/505180393/1014

Photo by Lane

[acoolmom777]

Hellooooooo....isn't that kind of close to the new school???? When is the next city election...cuz I think our city elect has had a brain fart.

[annieap]

ROTFLMBO!!! I LOVE the way you put that!...LOL

[uprivergirl]

:eek: Wheee! What a great idea!! NOT!!!!!!!! Right next to the new grade school and with great access to the tech/college. :mad:

Coolmom, could not have said it better myself!!!! LOL :D

[lackocash]

i think the mayor is doing the right thing....helping folks with substance problems....dont be a bunch of nimbys like the latonia folks....think of the high paying jobs this would create....mayor dave is a true humanitarian

[Chuck]

"industrial land adjacent" Didn't we use to call that "Jockey"????

So let me get this strait. We are going to have a children school across the street from a drug facility with criminals? I can send my child to school and he/she can take lunch and get drug rehab all at the same time.

Why not build the school behind the detention center and avoid the Christmas rush.

[annieap]

Gee, just think... for the D.A.R.E. program, maybe our 3rd, 4th, and 5th graders can just go across the street for a field trip to the recovery center. Or better yet, maybe for recreation the recovering addicts can share the playground with our kids.
This is so stupid!

[uprivergirl]

I, for one, could not wait for them to finish the new school on Clark's Run Road.

Not that Jones is not a good school, but that, over the past several years, that area by the school has become one of the loitering places for the druggies and other ne'er-do-wells. I see it every time I go shopping, day or evening, at Jubilee or pick up my grandchildren from Jones.

The new school would have taken the children out of that environment. Now, it seems as if that same environment is going to be built (on purpose!!) right next door! Egads! :eek:

There is a need for this type of place, but there are plenty of areas other than next to a school for such a place to be built. There is a lot of acreage on the Clyde Barbour Road with close access to the AA highway. If access to the AA is important, why not build it on the AA?

[Jeremy]

The article didn't mention anything about being right next door to the new elementary school. It said it would be next to the MCTC, which is some distance away. There's nothing to suggest that the recovering addicts will ever see your kids or interact with them.

Personally, I would like to see a program, maybe not in elementary schools but definitely in high schools, where recovering addicts are brought into school assemblies to tell their stories. I've heard about similar programs and they actually do much to curb drug abuse among teenagers. A lot of teenagers glorify drug addicts. When they have a chance to see how much of a loser one becomes when they are strung out, they change their mind.

Still, in the case of the facility for rehabilitation, doesn't make a difference. It's not like they are sharing the same parking lot or even close to it.

I'd have to say I agree with lackocash on this one.

[acoolmom777]

i think the mayor is doing the right thing....helping folks with substance problems....dont be a bunch of nimbys like the latonia folks....think of the high paying jobs this would create....mayor dave is a true humanitarian


Hey I'm all for the rehab program but not at that location.


Why not down at the old Jones school building, that way the druggies won't have to walk so far. And that brings us to another thing...who is going to pay for their transportation to the rehab....hummmm... and our taxes are being used for ...WHAT?????? :eek:

[Jeremy]

That's not how it works.

1) These facilities actually make money and will help the local economy.

2) The "patients" are piped in from other areas, so they would actually have a long way to walk :) That's why Maysville is a contender along with Latonia. The patients come from all around the regional area, not just Maysville.

3) Court ordered rehab is required to be paid for by the drug offender to avoid jail time. They don't just check in for free.

[uprivergirl]

That's not how it works.

1) These facilities actually make money and will help the local economy.

2) The "patients" are piped in from other areas, so they would actually have a long way to walk :) That's why Maysville is a contender along with Latonia. The patients come from all around the regional area, not just Maysville.

3) Court ordered rehab is required to be paid for by the drug offender to avoid jail time. They don't just check in for free.

Good post, Jeremy!

This is true, but that does not mean it has to be built anywhere near a school. I, too, think it is a good idea to have a program in the upper levels of school (like 6th-12th grades) where a recovering addict tries to help stop someone from even starting to experiment with drugs. :)

[acoolmom777]

That's not how it works.

1) These facilities actually make money and will help the local economy.

2) The "patients" are piped in from other areas, so they would actually have a long way to walk :) That's why Maysville is a contender along with Latonia. The patients come from all around the regional area, not just Maysville.

3) Court ordered rehab is required to be paid for by the drug offender to avoid jail time. They don't just check in for free.


Jeremy...not to pick your post apart...but...we could also look at it like this....

1."These facilities actually make money and will help the local economy".
(Helps make new connections and line corrupt pockets).

2."The "patients" are piped in from other areas, so they would actually have a long way to walk :) That's why Maysville is a contender along with Latonia. The patients come from all around the regional area, not just Maysville".
(Like Maysville doesn't have enough of their own, we have to bring more in...gee, that makes me feel better).

3."Court ordered rehab is required to be paid for by the drug offender to avoid jail time. They don't just check in for free".
(Sooooo....they take their drug money to pay not to go to jail...then they have to find drug money somewhere else...hummmm...loading my .38).

I lived in Florida for a very long time and we had a business there also...I have seen this come into a community and take it down hill real fast. But I have also seen it placed correctly and it and the community do very well.
This is a baddddd idea in placement......our property value will go down in Washington and the drug and crime problem will rise in this area.

I truly pray for the people that want and need this rehab, but as all things there will be major problems so close to the school.

[annieap]

I have to agree with Donna on this one. We dont need druggies "piped" into the area. And as much as I am all for rehab, I dont agree with it being located that close to a school.
It seems as though city status and potentional dollar signs are once again prevailing over common sense.

[Jeremy]

Maybe "piped" was a bad choice of words. ;)

[kcredden]

[hehehe] I thought I was the only one who know what a 'brain fart' meant :)

Hellooooooo....isn't that kind of close to the new school???? When is the next city election...cuz I think our city elect has had a brain fart.

[kcredden]

I agree with many points on everyone's posts. I don't like it being that close to a children's school; for that matter, ANY school. I like Jeremy's idea of having them talk to the kids, and I think it needs to be done in elementary school as well.

Kids today, hate to be told what to do, especially if it's an adult telling them 'don't do that' that automatically makes it forbidden, therefore 'lets do it!' LIke Red Skelton's 'Bad little boy' But as Jermey said, if they see one of their own *peers* looking half-dead, then it makes an impact. Maybe that's whats needed for the teen pregnancy, and teen sex problem too.

I am in favor of helping addicts with treatment. In the Netherlands, and other Europian countries, they put far more money into treatment, than imprisionment. Imprisionment doesn't work, and cloggs up the jails with minor offenses. Treatment and treating them with dignaty works, and they have a far less of a drug problem than we do. So I'm for this treatment center. I'm netural on the 'piping' in (thanks Jermey).

I'd love ot hear more about this, in the coming future.

[annieap]

Good one , Jeremy! LOl

[Chuck]

The article didn't mention anything about being right next door to the new elementary school. It said it would be next to the MCTC, which is some distance away. There's nothing to suggest that the recovering addicts will ever see your kids or interact with them.

What else is next to the property own by MCTC that would be called an "industrial area"?


Personally, I would like to see a program, maybe not in elementary schools but definitely in high schools, where recovering addicts are brought into school assemblies to tell their stories. I've heard about similar programs and they actually do much to curb drug abuse among teenagers. A lot of teenagers glorify drug addicts. When they have a chance to see how much of a loser one becomes when they are strung out, they change their mind.


Sounds great and a program like this would be an assert.

Still, in the case of the facility for rehabilitation, doesn't make a difference. It's not like they are sharing the same parking lot or even close to it.


We are not talking a maximum detention facility. Patient here would be allowed to roam and come and go. We are talking people that are going into rehab not people that have completed a program extremely close to children.

Rehab is a cool thing, the Location is a bad thing. I might agree with you but since I have small kids in school I tend to worry about the totality of the situation or at least the rule of "possible harms way".

I do not view this as being "Exceptable Risk Situation" to send my children withou my personal supervision. I would not allow the to walk or ride a bike close to this type of facility because it is not an exceptable risk for a prudent man.
I MIGHT find it more exceptable if my children were older and more capable of some type self defense. 6th grade is just a bit young to meet this guide line.

Just my .02

[acoolmom777]

"But as Jermey said, if they see one of their own *peers* looking half-dead, then it makes an impact. Maybe that's whats needed for the teen pregnancy, and teen sex problem too".


That doesn't work to well on kids now days...they have that..."Oh that won't happen to me or I won't let in get out of hand" attitude.

[Jeremy]

What else is next to the property own by MCTC that would be called an "industrial area"?


I was thinking more over where the firehouse is, the warehouse they use for the flea market, and the Chrysler dealership. I don't know what that road is called, but there's a bunch of industrial buildings over there and it's adjacent to the college. Like I mentioned, if it's over there the kids probably wouldn't even see the building on the way to school which is being built further back.

[Eddie]

What in the _____ is the city thinking! We don't have enough police now to handle the local drug problem, whats going to happen when they bring in more from surrounding counties.
As far as bringing the druggies into school to speak to the kids, NO STINKING WAY! I want the schools teaching my child Math, English, Reading, Writing, I'll take care of keeping him off drugs. And you want to know how, by placing my 10 1/2 boot up his rear if he ever thinks of trying drugs, then walking him down to the Marine Recruiting station and signing him up! You'll be surprised what 4 years in the corp will do for your thinking.

[dpolley]

Good post eddie! In reality, if we had competent city leadership this wouldn't be happening. Apparently this city and county haven't learned anything from our "regional" jail. Maysville/Mason County should not be the dumping ground for criminals and recovering addicts. Why bring something like this to our community? Also, isn't it strange how officials from other cities (that don't want this place, by the way) are giving Maysville a pat on the back, and recommendations for approval for the center? Don't get me wrong; rehab is a great thing. But why does it have to be in Maysville?

[acoolmom777]

Again I repeat....


Hellooooooo....isn't that kind of close to the new school???? When is the next city election...cuz I think our city elect has had a brain fart.

I don't remember a town meeting on this, or did I miss it? I want to know where I can go "voice my thoughts on this" ?????? I will be sending a lot of e-mail's tomorrow for sure... :mad:

[annieap]

dpolley, because it brings 'status'. We are such a wonderful place because we have the regional detention center. We will be so much more wonderful and caring in the eyes of other communities if we now have a rehab center. The city cares about its people. BULLCRAP!

[ponto]

Industrial Building For Sale:

Jockey International Plant located in Maysville, KY.

The Maysville-Mason County Industrial Development Authority has announced the Jockey International Plant, located in Maysville, KY, is for sale.
Total building size is 79,983 square feet, situated on 16.5 acres.

List Price: $1,020,000.00

For More Information Contact: Gene Weaver @ 606-564-1108 or gweaver@maysvilleky.net.

[acoolmom777]

Tell me where the heck they are getting the money to purchase this building....??? I could think of a lot better ways to spend $1,020,000.00
in Maysville. That would feed a lot of mouths of children.

[Chuck]

I was thinking more over where the firehouse is, the warehouse they use for the flea market, and the Chrysler dealership. I don't know what that road is called, but there's a bunch of industrial buildings over there and it's adjacent to the college. Like I mentioned, if it's over there the kids probably wouldn't even see the building on the way to school which is being built further back.

Would be alot better if these areas would be the location. But these locations are not best described as being next to MCTC. That is unless the information supplied is incorrect.

[kcredden]

If so, then maybe Eddie Johnson's idea would bear fruit. 4 years in the marines, and see how long they'd use drugs? I have no problems at all, in giving kids some strong disipline, as long as it's NOT abuse. (Thank you Annie, for your insightful difference.)

That doesn't work to well on kids now days...they have that..."Oh that won't happen to me or I won't let in get out of hand" attitude.

[ponto]

This story ran on ch.12 in Cincinnati on Sunday night.......

Neighbors Fight Proposed Drug Treatment Center

LAST UPDATE: 5/22/2005 11:34:17 PM


Some members of a local neighborhood are fighting plans for a residential drug and alcohol treatment center. The proposed "Recovery Kentucky Center" would sit near 40th and Huntington Streets in Latonia. That's directly across the street from Latonia Elementary School. Neighbors are worried about the people it might serve.

With governor Ernie Fletcher's go-ahead, the residential recovery center could be built as soon as next summer. Transitions Incorporated is showing potential neighbors exactly what the facility would do and how it could help change the lives of up to 100 men at a time. But some neighbors say they are not welcome. They're worried because one-third of those men could be former convicts.

"What's to prevent somebody from coming down the street, pulling out a gun, jumping the fence, and beating up some residents," said concerned resident, Michael Connell.

But a company official told Local 12 he's glad the residents are asking questions about the proposed development.

"I'm impressed by their energy and their commitment and their concern to make sure it's done right," said Mac McArthur, Transitions Inc.

A public hearing on the center is planned for 7 p.m. Monday at Latonia Elementary School.

http://www.wkrc.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=B200A8D0-5E2D-4665-BE4D-0C688E4FDAA8
liink -

[ponto]

Or Maybe A Cattle Car, Commissioner?

Granted, Covington City Commissioner Alex Edmondson suggested a bus be used to transport the men who would use the services of a 100-bed rehab facility that he'd rather see located in Maysville than Covington, but the sentiment (or lack thereof ) isn't so far removed.

Latonia might not be the best place for the Recovery Network, and plenty of residents showed up at last Tuesday's commission meeting to make that point, but does the Covington City Commission really think the people who need the services of the rehab facility are better served by traveling to Maysville? After Mayor Butch Callery mentioned that Maysville Mayor David Cartmell expressed interest in housing the facility in his city, Edmondson made a motion to pass a resolution to forward the application to Maysville.

Commissioner Rob Sanders was the lone abstainer, maintaining that the resolution was premature.

"I don't have enough information on this to make an intelligent decision," Sanders said.
That minor point didn't stop his colleagues on the commission.

And the Covington City Manager Is... Word is we might know by late this week. And is it true that Commissioner Edmondson will be the swing vote?

Vicki Prichard covers Northern Kentucky politics for The Sunday Challenger. She can be reached via e-mail at vprichard@challengernky.com.

link- http://www.challengernky.com/articles/2005/05/22/around_nky/doc428e461ec1dd0574177821.txt

[laceyrose_us]

did anyone every think of the safety issues here. the new school and the college. in the research i have done, the recovering can come and go as they please, so what happens when they wonder over to the college at night. when the classes are letting out the parking lots are dark and with no one watching who knows what can happen. this is not safe and the council people should think about it.

[mark]

..................Hmmm, as I read this post, someone towards the end finally brought up the issue that I always like to follow-----the money trail.

Yes, my friends, follow the money trail & one should find out the reason for the move.

Cartmell isn't wanting this for the prestige, that's nuts.

Follow the money trail my friends, follow the money trail.

The truth will then set you free............see ya Mark

[ponto]

After a week of vehement neighborhood opposition to a 100-bed residential drug recovery center in Latonia, it looks like the neighborhood has won.

McArthur said he is contacting other Northern Kentucky communities about potential sites and wants the public to help.

The center needs 2½ acres on a bus route, he said.

Residents voiced their opinions loudly at three community meetings and a city commission meeting this month, saying the center would lower property values and program participants could pose dangers to residents of Rosedale Manor and students from nearby Latonia Elementary School.

http://news.kypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050526/NEWS02/505260386/1014

[snowtiger]

It's a REHAB not a crack house, everyone is acting like this is hardened criminals not people with substance problems. It's a disease like alcoholism, not so much a "moral" deficit. These are people that are trying to get help with their problems, not add to them. Where's all that patience and love for our fellow humanity that everyone is always hinting at??

[Chuck]

Do you under estimate the power of Government and Corporate control?

If a judge orders a Rapist to get counseling after his prison term he would be delivered to one of these facilities.

Since ours would be located between 2 schools and this person would be allowed to roam all hours if the day and night we are saying this in NOT a good location for this facility. We are not say would not be good for the area.

Location Location Location. It's just bad there.


Would you "Knowingly" offer a diabetic a candy cane?
Would you "knowingly" serve Pork to Heart patient?
Would you "Knowingly" offer a beer to an Alcoholic?
Would you "knowingly" drop your kids off at a babysitter that has Child Molester living next door?

Cause that is what we are going to be ask to do.

[uprivergirl]

[I]Location Location Location. It's just bad there.


That was exactly my point in my other post. It is not that I am against a rehab center here in Maysville. As a matter of fact, I think it would help a lot of people turn their life around for the better. But, in the real world, some will not be able to do that and those are the ones I worry about. That is why the location is just plain WRONG!!!!!!!!!

[Jeremy]

How does drug rehab translate to rapists and pediphiles so easily?

[kcredden]

Good point, Chuck. It sounded like just a low-level felon (IE: drug addict) was to be put in these services. I didn't know also they stick rapists in there. I'm glad that the public threw a fit now, and opposed this.

Do you under estimate the power of Government and Corporate control?

If a judge orders a Rapist to get counseling after his prison term he would be delivered to one of these facilities.

Since ours would be located between 2 schools and this person would be allowed to roam all hours if the day and night we are saying this in NOT a good location for this facility. We are not say would not be good for the area.

Location Location Location. It's just bad there.


Would you "Knowingly" offer a diabetic a candy cane?
Would you "knowingly" serve Pork to Heart patient?
Would you "Knowingly" offer a beer to an Alcoholic?
Would you "knowingly" drop your kids off at a babysitter that has Child Molester living next door?

Cause that is what we are going to be ask to do.

[Chuck]

How does drug rehab translate to rapists and pediphiles so easily?

Would be at least 1 out of every 100 by the Nation standards. I've done nothing to translate it. This is the same information given in Latonia situation.

One in 5000 would be bad news in the wrong conditions.

Maybe I am still small town. I choose to live here based on the town I remember from my childhood and have seen. I choose what I want to live with and fight what I don't like.

I being to feel bad for standing against something, a location, not a project.

[Jeremy]

I don't know about that leap. Even if 1 out of every 100 drug abusers were also sex offenders, the clergy sex abuse scandal showed that 4,450 out of 110,000 priests were accused of some sort of sex abuse. That's a ration of 1 out of every 25 priests are sex offenders. I don't know if that's true or not, but I don't see them moving churches away from schools.

Sad statistics, but here they are:
http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/02/16/church.abuse/

[mark]

It's a REHAB not a crack house, everyone is acting like this is hardened criminals not people with substance problems. It's a disease like alcoholism,

.................sorry, I must beg to differ. Alcoholism is NOT a disease, it's a choice. When someone is sober & reaches towards a refrigerator door for another drink, he has a choice.
Do I open the door or not. A disease is a term the doctors gave alcoholism so insurance will pay for treatment.

Cancer, leukemia, etc. are diseases, something that one catches that has no control over...................see ya Mark

[annieap]

I just have one question. To those here that are defending the location, do you have children? I am not talking about kids that you love as if they were yours, but your own flesh and blood children?

[Jeremy]

I looked over the posts and I don't think anyone is actually defending a location at all. As I pointed out, I actually think that the location isn't close to the new school anyway.

acoolmom posted first that "isn't that kind of close to the new school?" and all the subsequent posts have been off that.

To me, the industrial area adjacent to the college sounds more like "where the firehouse is, the warehouse they use for the flea market, and the Chrysler dealership. I don't know what that road is called, but there's a bunch of industrial buildings over there and it's adjacent to the college. Like I mentioned, if it's over there the kids probably wouldn't even see the building on the way to school which is being built further back." I could be wrong about that, but that is what it sounds like to me.

I certainly wouldn't want any kids put in harm's way and I doubt anyone else would either.

Now I do disagree that 100 male drug recoverers would constitute a new criminal element in Maysville. I seriously reject that drug offenders equal sex offenders. To me, that's ridiculous. There's 13,000 people in Maysville and 9 registered sex offenders. That's 1 in 1444. If you add being a drug offender to the equation, you are bound to get a number around 1 in 100, which would reflect an overall population trickled down with the defining factor of drug offender. You could just as easily say that 1 in 100 people who live in Maysville and shop at Kroger's instead of Walmart are sex offenders. The more qualifiers you add to a statistical equation, the smaller the numbers become.

Like I said, I wouldn't want any kids put in harm's way, but I 1) don't think it is close to them (could be wrong about that) and 2) wouldn't want drug offenders stereotyped as pediphiles and rapists.

[snowtiger]

It is a disease that can be genetically and behaviorly inherited. I'm a Psychology Major and that would mean I could have a decent job close to home without having to drive all the way to Lexington or Cincinnati. No, I wouldn't want it close to the school, I never said that. I just said it would be a good idea for around here because Comprehend doesn't seem to be doing much good to anyone I've seen come out of there. Our small town has a lot of addiction problems, I KNOW, I've been around way too many of them in my 35 years. We really need something for our own people here.

[ponto]

I just said it would be a good idea for around here because Comprehend doesn't seem to be doing much good to anyone I've seen come out of there. Our small town has a lot of addiction problems, I KNOW, I've been around way too many of them in my 35 years. We really need something for our own people here.

Comprehend Inc., which provides substance abuse and mental health services in Mason, Bracken Lewis and Fleming counties, is working on an application for a men's recovery center in Maysville.


Mac McArthur

[kcredden]

As a 2 year Psyc major, I will agree with SnowTiger here. Although my training was about 15 years ago, and I haven't kept up much since I left it. But even then, there was physcial changes that could be mapped out in the brain with a PET scan dealing with substance abuse. So a disease? Yes I'd classify it as such. One *born* with it, that I'm not sure of, but something that could be made? Yes.

It is a disease that can be genetically and behaviorly inherited. I'm a Psychology Major and that would mean I could have a decent job close to home without having to drive all the way to Lexington or Cincinnati. No, I wouldn't want it close to the school, I never said that. I just said it would be a good idea for around here because Comprehend doesn't seem to be doing much good to anyone I've seen come out of there. Our small town has a lot of addiction problems, I KNOW, I've been around way too many of them in my 35 years. We really need something for our own people here.

[snowtiger]

No WONDER we agree on things, LOL!!

[mark]

It is a disease that can be genetically and behaviorly inherited. I'm a Psychology Major ............

I'm not knocking your education so please don't get me wrong.

I still say alcoholism ISN'T a disease because the drinker HAS a choice before he opens the refrigerator door.

It's a shame a cancer patient can have the same choice............see ya Mark

[Chuck]

If alcoholism is a disease then so should smoking be.

Alcoholism causes disease, smoking causes disease, Pork causes disease. They should not be considered a disease by themselves. The are choices and a chosen lifestyles.

Or do we choose to pitty a select group of life choices?

[mark]

If alcoholism is a disease then so should smoking be.

Alcoholism causes disease, smoking causes disease, Pork causes disease. They should not be considered a disease by themselves. The are choices and a chosen lifestyles.


Chuck, I couldn't agree with you more!! ...............see ya Mark

[GirlColumbo]

if i were a drug addict i would be thirlled a treatment center was gonna be so close to so many other possible customers.....................

[Jeremy]

Before I explain why it is a disease, let me first explain why it is not a choice. There's a huge misunderstanding in our society about alchoholism. People equate alchoholism with being a problem drinker, when the two are totally different things. An alchoholic is an alchoholic whether they ever drink at all. People who get hammered and drink and drive, beat up their spouse, etc. may or may not be an alchoholic. They may just be a problem drinker. Alchoholics have no choice whatsoever about being an alchoholic. They have a choice on whether they drink, but not on whether they have the disease.

A disease you say? Yes. A disease.

From the Alchoholic's Anonymous Site:

Alcoholism is a chemical/biological disease that is primary, progressive, chronic and fatal. It is characterized by an obsession to drink that makes it impossible to predict when we will start drinking, and an allergy to alcohol, which makes it impossible to predict when we will stop drinking.

Alcoholism is a chemical disease because it breaks down differently in the stomach and has an entirely different effect on the brain of the alcoholic than on the non-alcoholic. It is biological in the sense that the chemical predisposition is inherited. Identical twin studies of long standing show that identical twins separated at birth will tend to both be alcoholic or non-alcoholic regardless of their environmental upbringing. The THIQ experiments show that a sample of THIQ taken from an alcoholic rat and placed in the brain of a non-alcoholic rat makes an instant rat-oholic. This implant bypasses all social, religious and parental systems entirely, leaving only a chemical disease.

It is primary since it is not the result of another disease. It has it's own diagnosis, and its own pathology. It does not depend on the existence of another disease for its presence. However it is a causative factor in other diseases. It is destructive to the heart, brain, liver, kidneys, and almost every other body organ. The weakened condition of these organs due to alcoholism can lower resistance to numerous diseases.

It is progressive since it always gets worse over any considered period of time. This means that we can predict with a great deal of accuracy the onset of many symptoms of alcoholism such as blackouts, euphoric recall, and blaming. Further the disease of alcoholism seems to progress whether the alcoholic continues to drink or not. While the allergy to alcohol continues to progress the cessation of drinking can stop the destruction of the body organs. In most cases the offended body organs can begin to restore themselves. One exception is the liver. Once cirrhosis has set in the liver can never restore itself. It will not continue to get worse but neither will it heal itself.

Alcoholism is chronic because it never stops on its own accord. Like a bad check, it just keeps coming back.

Alcoholism is fatal. Alcoholics die about 12 years sooner than non-alcoholics. This figure does not include suicide, car wrecks, homicide and other accidental death. It also does not take into account the mixing of chemicals that is done today. This mixing causes what is known as amplification, or a magnified effect by being taken together. Two drinks and two pills can equal four, they can equal 8, or they can equal death. Even stranger, death can be caused by overdose when the alcoholic/addict has successfully taken much larger doses in the past and for longer periods of time.

Alcoholism is caused by a person who is genetically predisposed to alcoholism drinking alcohol in sufficient quantities over a sufficient period of time. Some, who are 100% predisposed to alcoholism, are alcoholic from the first drink. Others, who may be only slightly predisposed, may have to drink a certain amount for a certain period of time before becoming alcoholic. The difference in these two examples and all the infinite points in between them on a continuum form what is known as the "time-dosage line." Alcohol is one of the two causative factors of alcoholism--not a symptom of alcoholism. The predisposition to alcoholism is the other causative factor.

Low self esteem, lack of self worth, and shame are characteristic by products of alcoholism-not vice versa.

[kcredden]

The problem we're having here is: It's the class, not the particular thing. Addiction - where I'd classify it as something similar to Obsessive/Complusive Disorder; OCD, is a behavor that cannot be controlled. it's a disease caused by either a physical or chemical disorder in the brain. Much like a brain tumor, or epilepsy.

A lifestyle is a choice.

The problem with things such as alcoholism, smoking, and pork eating is that it can be either/or. I've debated with others in my class that anything that brings pleasure can be addictive (That came about when 'sexual addiction' started to be popular.) The standard line from where it becomes a diease, is when it becomes a problem. When all you can think of, is; my next fix, my next drink, my next plate of Mt. Oysters

Smoking, and Alcoholism can be an obsession due to the affect of nicotine, and alcohol. Or it can be a life style, because some people may not get the same chemical changes in the brain that others do. My mother quit cold turkey after her heart attack, and *never* has return to smoking. She didn't even have withdraw. Why? It could be it was nothing more than a lifestyle she choose to stop when it was time. My father was the same way 20+ years ago. Me, I never started, and never will.

However, I've seen others go though the fits after stop smoking, much like the DTs in alcoholism, and after helping another friend go clean, I'd *never* get into drugs. So those two had a diease.

I look at this like multiple personality disorder. An actor could be convincing, and act like he's someone else. But run him though a PET scan, and there won't be any difference. Put a true MPD though one, and you'll see differences. The differences is in the brain, but how to tell them apart isn't easy.

Just my $.05 and opinion. Your free to tell me where to shove it :)

If alcoholism is a disease then so should smoking be.

Alcoholism causes disease, smoking causes disease, Pork causes disease. They should not be considered a disease by themselves. The are choices and a chosen lifestyles.

Or do we choose to pitty a select group of life choices?

[Chuck]

I glad to inform that there are other test besides Positron Emission Tomography scans to determine disease.

How about a diagnosis or PET scan before an Alcoholic's 1st drink?

Basically I still read cause and effect.

I am a smokoholic. I was called to smoking, it was not a choice. Seriously this is how I see. I have heard the same statement from Alcoholic's and Chronic Drug Abusers. Not to mention folks with a chronic eating disorder.

We live in a world of disorders. Everyone has something and if you complain long enough they will find or name a disorder or disease for it.

There is just way to much money available to treat disorders and disease than to find cures.

[kcredden]

True, Chuck. A PET scan only reads what's happening now in the brain. A genentic disorder - if one exists that makes a person a smokaholic, or such - would have to be used, to tell a alcholic not to take that first drink.

Your also very, very right about the affects of money on diseases. We've pretty much said in the mailing list on diabeties, that a cure for this will NOT be found in the U.S., and the drug companies will do everything they can to keep people from being cured. Just like they're doing all they can to keep people from getting cheaper meds, and medical treatments.

Unless big pharma puts a gun to my head and stops me from going elsewhere, I'm not going to be stopped.

I glad to inform that there are other test besides Positron Emission Tomography scans to determine disease.

How about a diagnosis or PET scan before an Alcoholic's 1st drink?

Basically I still read cause and effect.

I am a smokoholic. I was called to smoking, it was not a choice. Seriously this is how I see. I have heard the same statement from Alcoholic's and Chronic Drug Abusers. Not to mention folks with a chronic eating disorder.

We live in a world of disorders. Everyone has something and if you complain long enough they will find or name a disorder or disease for it.

There is just way to much money available to treat disorders and disease than to find cures.

[mark]

I still say alcoholism ISN'T a disease because the drinker HAS a choice before he opens the refrigerator door.

It's a shame a cancer patient can have the same choice............see ya Mark

I've read those posts & sorry, I still say alcoholism is NOT a disease. You can call it what you want, but when the drinker is sober ( they are sober sometime, right? ) , he STILL has a choice as to whether to open the fridge or not.

Doctors calls it a disease for insurance purposes, alcoholics DO HAVE a choice where cancer, leukemia etc. patients usually don't.

For those who says both of these are a disease,
I don't drink adult beverages but if I did, I'd much rather be a alcoholic than a cancer, leukemia, etc. patient anyday.

At least the alcoholic has better odds of survival..................see ya Mark

[Jeremy]

It's not a contest between alchoholism and cancer. There are lots of diseases that aren't as bad as cancer. And just because someone has a choice over whether they have a beer doesn't change the fact that they are still an alchoholic, same as a person having the choice of smoking doesn't change the fact that they have lung cancer.

According to Dictionary.com, a disease is "A pathological condition of a part, organ, or system of an organism resulting from various causes, such as infection, genetic defect, or environmental stress, and characterized by an identifiable group of signs or symptoms."

Both alchoholism and cancer fit that description, even without genetic predisposition.

People don't have to accept that it is a disease, for whatever reason, but calling a chicken a duck doesn't change the fact that it is indeed a chicken. If it fits the definition, it fits the definition.

[mark]

...................I only use cancer or leukemia as a example. Whenever I hear of someone getting cancer, leukemia, MS, etc. I usually see a saddened look from the listener thinking the patient generally has little chance for survival.

Whenever I hear someone say a person is a alcoholic, the response I usually receive is...........oh, well, he can quit whenever he wants.

I agree.

Suppose a alcoholic & a person with a disease ( such as cancer, MS, etc ) are suddenly stranded on a desert island with good food to eat & no alcohol.

Which one would probably survive longer??

The drunk CAN get by without the drinks. I only wish the other person had the same choice ................see ya Mark

[annieap]

Isnt the topic suppose to be about the drug rehab????

[GirlColumbo]

as a wife of an alcoholic, sister of one too, i am still not sure if it is a disease or not, i know my husbands family has a long history of alcoholics/broblem drinkers as the wife and sister who has dealt with much pain from drinking, i can see both reasoning sides, when you see someone drink until they puke then keep on drinking more you have to wonder where that desire is coming from, my brother was killed because of his problem, disease, what ever it is, he was hit by a truck while walking along the road, so much family heartache, you know the drinker dont really want to be that way and cause so much pain, it has been something i have researched for a long time and still dont have a clear answer

[kcredden]

I kind of agree. We are drifting on and off topic, but not so severe (like the coffee on compitition discussion) that would warrent a split. But I'll listen to what people want. If you want it split, then the mods should split it.

Isnt the topic suppose to be about the drug rehab????

[mark]

..............no need to split it, I've said my thoughts ( about alcoholism ) ....please go back to the topic on hand.

I'll say no more.................see ya Mark

[GirlColumbo]

sorry , ya'll do know girlc has ADD, i will try my best to stay on topic

[Jeremy]

I was just responding to other people's posts :D

[GirlColumbo]

there are many variables when anything on drug rehab comes up, it is easy to get off the main topic on this one

[ponto]

A two-week-long search for a site for a residential drug recovery center for men in Northern Kentucky has come up empty, so it appears the agency pushing the project will go ahead and propose it for a controversial spot adjacent to a Latonia nursing home.

With Wednesday's 6-15-05 deadline looming for the agency to file an application for state funding for the project, Transitions Director Mac McArthur said it appears he has no choice but to submit the plan with the site next to Rosedale as the proposed location.

http://news.kypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050614/NEWS02/506140392/1014

[ponto]

Transitions Inc. might have found the perfect place for a men's drug recovery center: a vacant industrial site near the Covington Police Department.

Booed out of Latonia, the proposed residential treatment center for up to 100 men now might go on a Donaldson Avenue site once home to the Donaldson Art Sign Co. Transitions Director Mac McArthur plans to meet soon with residents of neighborhoods near the spot.

The Covington City Commission and Kenton County Fiscal Court must OK the site, public hearings must be held, regulations met and funding secured. The city and county own the lot because back taxes were not paid on it.

The property will be passed day and night by officers using a lot at police headquarters at 20th and Madison.

"This place will be well patrolled," McArthur said Friday.

The Transitions center would be part of "Recovery Kentucky," a state program offering $9.5 million in grants and tax credits to construct and operate 10 recovery centers for substance abusers who are poor, uninsured or homeless.

source - http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050730/NEWS01/507300369

[ponto]

In Maysville, Comprehend Inc. wants to operate a recovery center for men on city-owned land in an industrial area near the Maysville Community and Technical College.

The program has strong support from the city and county, but it could face fund-raising challenges.

The Federal Home Loan Bank approved three $500,000 grants in June - to Transitions, Brighton Center and the Pennyroyal Mental Health Mental Retardation Board, for a program in Hopkinsville.

Another project in Harlan raised the $500,000 in local donations.

Townsend said the Federal Home Loan Bank will approve more loans in another round of funding and some projects have applied for bridge loans.

http://news.kypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050805/NEWS02/508050376/1014

[ponto]

Gov. Ernie Fletcher announced Monday night ( 8-15-05) the city of Maysville will be one of the first locations statewide to have drug recovery center.

The Recovery Kentucky program is designed to resolve homelessness in the Commonwealth.

The center will be located on Martha Comer Drive on land which was provided by the city of Maysville.

The Maysville Recovery Center would house 100 men near the Maysville Community and Technical College.

The centers assist Kentuckians who often find themselves chronically homeless due to their substance abuse.

Fletcher described a drug problem that varies by region: In Western Kentucky, it's methamphetamine; in Eastern Kentucky, OxyContin; and in urban areas, crack cocaine.

Maysville Mayor David Cartmell said:

"This is especially dedicated to our region and won't bring in a lot of people from urban regions,"

Maysville still has to complete agreements with the state. Assuming that's done, construction could begin in 2006.












.

[ponto]

Despite open-forum meetings prior to applying for state & federal money,
local "Recovery Kentucky" applicants/representatives at Comprehend and
Buffalo Trace Area Development District have experienced public "grumbling" over the proposed location near Maysville Community & Technical College and Mason County's new grade school on Clark's Run Road.

Representatives from Comprehend and BTADD will be on hand during the
Maysville-Mason Co. Area Chamber of Commerce final 2005 Membership Meeting to detail the local Recovery Kentucky center and answer questions.

The meeting will take place November 3, 2005 at Caproni's Restaurant from
11:30AM-1:00PM. Admission for Chamber members is $8.00 and non-members will be admitted for $12.00

[uprivergirl]

:eek: EGADS!! Now we have to pay $12.00 just to "grumble" at them to not build that center where the mayor has called "the absolute perfect place". It should be built, but NOWHERE near either of the schools!! Any one with half a brain would realize that! Build it out on the AA, where it will have great access from all directions.

[Foxy]

why is there a fee to go to this meeting? it doesn't seem right. there are a lot of voting citizens who would like to attend this meeting, but would not e able to pay. or maybe the 'public' is not really 'wanted' there?

[darkangelsblade]

Why don't we use the Jones Elementry School building for the rehab center instead of letting it go to waste just sitting there empty. That way it wouldn't be too far from the police station incase they needed some reinforcement around. That way we are not wasting a good building and taking the risk of having more problems on the hill next to the college and elementry school. Myself I feel it would be better to have it some place away from the children and college students. The city could easily chain link fence in the elementry school and make it a safer place for the drug rehab center than to be out in no mans land and take a risk of something happening to our children or college students or even our teachers. That is just my opinion.

[Foxy]

[QUOTE=darkangelsblade]Why don't we use the Jones Elementry School building for the rehab center instead of letting it go to waste just sitting there empty.QUOTE]

I agree darkangel.

It would seem like there would e lots of diffrent rooms for lodginf, meetings, and offices ther. They could make lodginf upstairs, with guards at the bottom of the stairways. There is already an intercom system, phone lines and cable.

Well those are my thoughts, but who wants to listen to poor little me, I am only a registered voter who does vote.