Religion Versus Religion [Archive]

Groundhog

May 17th, 2005, 06:15 PM

Chuck

May 17th, 2005, 08:28 PM

Annie quit this topic due to threating emails. I have a copy of them. I personally don't have a problem with any religion but I do find it rude to email people that only voice their opinion.

I don't believe it was anyone that was posting in the threads that was doing the emailing. I did go to spellbound this afternoon to talk about it but they was closed. I will attempt to stop up tomorrow as I think we can find a solution and get everyone back to posting again cause it was fun to read.

This place should get interesting about October so hope we can find a solution.

I can email you and spellbound a copy of the email if you like?

GirlColumbo

May 17th, 2005, 10:22 PM

off the subject here chuck, but i cant wait until Oct, bet those ghost stories wil be hitting the boards then,

dpolley

May 17th, 2005, 10:27 PM

Mah, Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha...Lucy...I'm Hoommmeee...
Well, where is everyone...is this a private fight or can anyone get in on it...grins...
You know, I am one that when it comes to other beliefs, I do try to get along, but when I'm attached because of my belief, I don't back down...its the only way to deal with a bully. If you stand up to them they will usually back down, and I don't see Annie anywhere around...sooo...
But seriously folks, the Wiccians like real Christians, or better, Followers of Christ. We have a wonderful guy from Mt. Sterling that comes to our Full Moon circles, and he is very much a Follower of the Christ...and he is very much welcome. Its the ones that see other people as some kind of resource to be harvested for Geesus that cause all the bother.
-
Oh well, so much for not picking on any individuals. With comments like this, why should anyone get in on this thread?

acoolmom777

May 17th, 2005, 10:52 PM

Mah, Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha...Lucy...I'm Hoommmeee...
Well, where is everyone...is this a private fight or can anyone get in on it...grins...
You know, I am one that when it comes to other beliefs, I do try to get along, but when I'm attached because of my belief, I don't back down...its the only way to deal with a bully. If you stand up to them they will usually back down, and I don't see Annie anywhere around...sooo...
But seriously folks, the Wiccians like real Christians, or better, Followers of Christ. We have a wonderful guy from Mt. Sterling that comes to our Full Moon circles, and he is very much a Follower of the Christ...and he is very much welcome. Its the ones that see other people as some kind of resource to be harvested for Geesus that cause all the bother.

REMEMBER...Brother...in short...

The Wiccan Rede...

Bide The Wiccan Law Ye Must,
In Perfect Love, In Perfect Trust.
Eight Words The Wiccan Rede Fulfill:
An Ye Harm None, Do As Ye Will.
And Ever Mind The Rule Of Three:
What Ye Send Out, Comes Back To Thee.
Follow This With Mind And Heart,
And Merry Ye Meet, And Merry Ye Part.

There will always be people that bash others and their faith, it is human nature. But it will be the strong in faith...not voice...that prosper.

kcredden

May 18th, 2005, 12:00 PM

I guess it shows, no matter your beliefs, there will always be some that will want to do others harm. I don't like the idea, Annie has had threating e-mails, and I will say for the record, I'll strongly defend any thread dealing with Wicca, or ANY religion (religion, not cults). Threads will be cut the instaint I see them if they're threatening, with Chuck having the final say on them.

Sorry to see you leave, Annie, but I agree with your decision.

As a side note, I'll start cleaning out the other thread sometime this week.

Annie quit this topic due to threating emails. I have a copy of them. I personally don't have a problem with any religion but I do find it rude to email people that only voice their opinion.

annieap

May 18th, 2005, 04:09 PM

I havent left. Just taking a brief break.

Groundhog

May 18th, 2005, 05:29 PM

I would like to recommend a good book to everyone...it is called the Roots of Evil by Ervin Staub. Staub teaches at the U of Mass. and his book is a case study of four mass killings or genocides that have taken place in the last 150 years...the most notable being the genocide of the Jews by the German people under the rule of Adolph Hitler and the Nazis. Staub found that the four example were alike, (even though their ideology were differnt) in the way these groups progressed in their abuse of minority groups that ended in the mass killings or genocides of these groups. The only way to avoid this end is for good people to speak up against these abuses while they still can. If left unchallenged, then the abuses will continue and even get worse. I keep a sticker on my computer desk written by Martin Niemoller who was a victim of the Nazis. It reads..."First they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew...Then they came for the communists, and I did not speak out because I was not a communist...Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist...Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak out for me." Could this happen in this country...could this happen in the good old USA? Well, they say that people who will gather together to burn books will sooner or later burn the people who wrote them and read them...and today, there are groups of Christians who gather together to burn our books. The only reason that that many of up are alive today is because it is still against the law to commit religious murder...and remember...400 years ago, when the law of the land was the same as Christian law...it wasn't. If you don't believe me, ask an Indian.

acoolmom777

May 18th, 2005, 06:15 PM

I have been Annie's friend for sometime now, and we didn't speak of our beliefs until lately. As much as they are different, she has never said any bad or harsh against them, nor me of hers. She has never treated me any different, then the first time we spoke. We speak of our beliefs in almost every conversation we have, because they are a part of us.

I think … all need to step back and take a deep breath and approach all posts with an adult attitude …and “agree to disagree”.

I also know of the emails...and just let me say...whom ever wrote them...went against every belief law they were frighting for, so they really were just a waste of time writing.

kcredden

May 18th, 2005, 07:12 PM

Excellent post, Groundhog. Sadly, that's what's happening in the U.S. on many fronts. But maybe enough are speaking out to keep this from blowing up. We'll have to see. Mr. Niemoller was absolutely correct here, and thanks for posting that. We have to remember that no matter what our beliefs, or desires we *are* human, and should be treated and held equally.

The only way to avoid this end is for good people to speak up against these abuses while they still can. If left unchallenged, then the abuses will continue and even get worse. I keep a sticker on my computer desk written by Martin Niemoller who was a victim of the Nazis. It reads..."First they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew...Then they came for the communists, and I did not speak out because I was not a communist...Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist...Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak out for me."

dpolley

May 18th, 2005, 09:38 PM

While I agree with most of what groundhog says, it still smacks of generality. You cannot blame all Christians for what a certain percentage of the group or whatever word you want to use choose to do, claiming that it is what God would want them to do. That's the same as stating that every citizen of Germany in the 1940's wanted to exterminate the Jews, which we all know is not true. I am far from a saint, but there are many core principles that I was brought up believing, and still believe. This does not make me an outcast in any sense of the word. I fully agree with acoolmom's last posting, and loudly applaud her for it. By castigating annie these people only prove what I stated in an earlier response. Christianity takes a beating in today's society. No matter what your beliefs are, it's okay as long as you don't claim to believe in Jesus Christ and profess it freely. Anyone and everyone should be free to believe in whatever they believe in, even if you or I think that it is wrong. I don't agree with a lot of what I've read in this thread and others, and I'm not above voicing my opinion, but to ridicule or target one group (or in this case, an individual) is completely unforgiveable and unacceptable.
If this is the kind of response this type of thread receives, why start the thread at all?

GirlColumbo

May 18th, 2005, 09:43 PM

I will tell ya'll this because i know for sure all of our chewing gum will be going to heaven because we chew the heck out of it...............

dpolley

May 18th, 2005, 09:49 PM

Nice humor break!

annieap

May 18th, 2005, 09:51 PM

That was too funny...and a much needed laugh!

GirlColumbo

May 18th, 2005, 09:54 PM

Hi annie, you know me, silly Kym always looking for the lighter side of things

GirlColumbo

May 18th, 2005, 10:07 PM

Just letting ya'll know that I respect everyones views here and dont mean to make it sound like I am just a goofy-nut-blonde.............but sometimes reading the boards gives me a tension headace and the humor can sure do wonders when I read everyones post, I think and consider, and wonder, and then i get a big ole headache...............

dpolley, sometimes i get dizzy watching your avatar....LOL

Jeremy

May 18th, 2005, 10:57 PM

If this is the kind of response this type of thread receives, why start the thread at all?

I started this thread to show what out and out religious intolerance might look like. I'm still waiting to see where it goes.

kcredden

May 18th, 2005, 11:20 PM

Thank you, Girl. You reminded me of myself, and how I'm letting this pull me in too deep as well. Your humor break, is like something from a good drama. Good drama's have at least a 'tongue in cheek' every once in awile to break the mood. It allows us also to think more clearly then.

Just letting ya'll know that I respect everyones views here and dont mean to make it sound like I am just a goofy-nut-blonde.............but sometimes reading the boards gives me a tension headace and the humor can sure do wonders when I read everyones post, I think and consider, and wonder, and then i get a big ole headache...............

dpolley, sometimes i get dizzy watching your avatar....LOL

kcredden

May 18th, 2005, 11:26 PM

Dpolley:

Your point is well taken. I wrote a message awile back on another BBS, that in general said that just because we're we're automatically [insert stereotype] when it's only the [I]minority that is that. (example: German = Nazi, Muslian = Mad bomber, Blacks = drug abusers) Lets all remember that because of our beliefs, we're not automatically part of an evil minority.

While I agree with most of what groundhog says, it still smacks of generality. You cannot blame all Christians for what a certain percentage of the group or whatever word you want to use choose to do, claiming that it is what God would want them to do. That's the same as stating that every citizen of Germany in the 1940's wanted to exterminate the Jews, which we all know is not true.

GirlColumbo

May 18th, 2005, 11:30 PM

your welcome KC, ya gotta say that these threads do make ya think, sometimes i find myself thinking about a post in the midst of my work day, soooooooooo goes to show how everyones input is considered food for thought.

Groundhog

May 19th, 2005, 10:55 AM

A person, or group, will not harm another person, or another group unless they can first justify their actions. This is a psychological fact. It is very sad that almost ever religion known to man will provide this kind of justification. The point I'm making is that if this is built into the spiritual teachings of the religion, how can it be of the Holy Spirit? The only exception to this is if the individual or the group is suffering form some form of mental illness of a physical nature, but then again if the mental illness is induced and not of a physical nature, what is causing whole groups to suffer from theomainia, or religious insanity?

annieap

May 19th, 2005, 12:05 PM

I think that would be classified as brianwashing rather than a mental illness. There are many clever people in this world that have a talent for brainwashing. They prey upon vulnerable individuals, bringing them together, forming a group and then giving the group a name. These groups (individuals) will defend the leader at any cost or extreme. The leader has complete control over his collective group and just by saying the word, the group will do anything asked of them by the leader, ex. - Jim Jones.
On the other hand, there are as many if not more naive persons that can be easily persuaded into situations by just giving them a little attention and praise. A little attention given to someone with low self esteem can go along way and can be dangerous if the giver is a manipulative brainwasher.

acoolmom777

May 19th, 2005, 04:22 PM

awwww yes...remember Charles Manson....that seem to be the start of "something'' in this country,that grew into a new religious way....He thought he was God himself.... :eek:

annieap

May 19th, 2005, 04:35 PM

wow..coolmom777...that was scary! I was composing an elaboration on my last posting and had just mention Charles Manson. Are we on the same wave length today or what? LOL ;)

Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, Mountain Dew in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming...

Dang, What a ride!!

Chuck

May 19th, 2005, 05:06 PM

Cool, Charles Manson, Takes me back to the Jim Jones days. Now there was a family man.... NOT!!!!!!

Charlie thought he had gifts from God and the he was a Messiah equal to that of Jesus. There was never any proof that Charlie had any powers at all. (Obviously since he is still incarcerated) Amazing how how the criminally insane choose to justify there destruction in the name of god. I would add that Charles Manson performed no miracles nor could he walk on water. Might be why he confined most his time to the Death Valley Desert.

Now James Warren Jones on the other had people convinced he was "A" god. The Peoples temple was a Church on 4000 acres of land called Jonestown. Jim Jones had 900+ follower the followed him knowing the final outcome would be their death by suicide.

These 900 people were mostly made up of poor and homeless and followed Jim Jones on the "Idea" that they would die and move on to another planet where they would find "Bliss". A Nirvana so to speak but not Nirvana.

Jim Jones had 2 University degrees and was Ordained through Christian Church/Disciples of Christ.

Those of us the believe in Government conspiracy theories have a different opinion of these 2.

Of coarse we never walked on the moon either.

Jeremy

May 19th, 2005, 06:04 PM

Hey, I saw that footage they were talking about in the Moon conspiracies. If you didn't hear the actual explanations for why the flag was flapping in no wind, and why there were different shadow angles, and why there were no stars in the sky, etc. on the Discovery channel like I did, it would make for a pretty convincing argument at first glance.

Chuck

May 19th, 2005, 08:11 PM

In 1969 I was 10. I was told that their was no wind on the moon. I remember that clearly. I remember watching the 1st lunar walk. I ask my dad how the flag was if there was no wind? He said there had to be wind on the Moon. That always stuck with me.

I later learned that I was hallucinating and my High School teacher put it. I also remember him teaching us about a 12 mile radiation belt just outside of our space. I think it was 12 miles. The moon men were suppose to have traveled though this belt with a space ship made from Aluminum Foil and Bathroom Tile.

I then learned that the Space Shuttle is made to withstand more than the Apollo rocket could ever take. The Space Shuttles cannot handle the radiation belt stated above I was told.

I just found it all odd. I haven't seen any movies or documentaries on this topic as of yet but will keep my eyes open for it.

I want to say we never walked on the moon but I don't have enough information. I would like to add it to the list of things that happened on "The Grassy Knoll".

I am religious about Govt. Conspiracies dating all the back to King James.

Jeremy

May 20th, 2005, 02:33 AM

According to the Discovery Channel show I watched that covered just about every point the conspiracists had to make, the fact that there is no wind is actually what caused the flag to flap.

See, because there is no wind, there was a springy rod put in to hold the flag out, else it would just droop in the windless vacuum and not look good on camera. The pole that the flag sat on came in two sections, the one that went in the ground and also a flag attachment. As they were putting the attachment into the ground part, it caused the flag to bounce, which looked like it was flapping.

The flag flapping footage is what most people see because that is the best part. The Discovery Channel aired less shown footage that showed them struggling to put the flag attachment section into the ground section and the flag was bouncing all over the place.

The part that I thought interesting is when they were criticizing the "automated landing" sequence that was programmed in the ship's onboard computer. The entire program to land the lunar module was only 4KB. :)

Groundhog

May 21st, 2005, 01:27 PM

Here is one for you...there is a theory that the world was spiritually evolving the way it should when around 4000 years ago there was a group of aliens that picked a certain group of people and pretended to be god...telling them that they were the chosen people, which was a totally foreign concept until that time. Over the next 2500 years they continued to be active in the development of the created myth of the chosen people, and then stopped after telling them that someday they would return. Now, if you read the book of Revalations, the Bible gives the height, width, and depth of the new kingdom of god that will decend from the heavens. If you use the demesions it comes out to be a cube. Hmmmm....sounds like the Borg to me.
Resistance is futile...prepare to be assemilated.

kcredden

May 21st, 2005, 01:46 PM

Accually this started about 22 years ago. It's called Microsoft, and Bill Gates is the Borg queen :) - I can hear his voice in my head sayng " We are Microsoft, you will be assemilated" :)

Funny, I hear Homer Simpson too, "We are the borg, prepare to be...OHHH Donuts!!"

[ducks and runs, laughing..!]

If you use the demesions it comes out to be a cube. Hmmmm....sounds like the Borg to me.
Resistance is futile...prepare to be assemilated.

dpolley

May 21st, 2005, 08:15 PM

GirlColumbo

May 22nd, 2005, 12:06 AM

well maybe heaven is going to be that small cause there are only a hand full who are actually gonna go,

for the record, i refuse to believe that we evolved from some gooey ooze that bubbled out of the ground. Now think about it, how could our intricate brains and human system evolve from nothing, there has to be a master mind to create us the way we are.... I choose to call him GOD!!!!!

annieap

May 22nd, 2005, 12:30 AM

Amazing how some people say (or write) things just to make others angry. Personally, I think these people need pity, as well as a life. Anyway, I think this thread has run its course.
These are generally the same ones that demand respect from others yet do not reciprocate. And you are right...seems this thread has run its course. It has turned into a poke fun and talk science fiction thread rather than one about religion.

Jeremy

May 22nd, 2005, 01:14 AM

I was waiting for people to criticize each other's religions like they did in the other threads. I guess when you actually ask for it, no one has anything to say.

Chuck

May 22nd, 2005, 09:59 AM

Think everyone said their peace and got burnt out a bit in the other threads.

Yes, I type what might be Si-Fi to you, but thats what I am religions about this week.

I believe that if everything is in fact "God's Will" and or "God's Plan" or that it is all "Destiny" then everyone is doing god's work already.

I often wonder if life is pre-destine or free choice. I don't have the answer.

So is it live, or is it Memorex?

GirlColumbo

May 22nd, 2005, 02:31 PM

chuck i think it is memorex, LOL I bet you will find the answer when you finally get to where you are going............seems like you should be there already, you have been stepping if off for miles and miles now...................in reference to traveling avatar

i think life is pre destined and we have free choice to choose the correct path, God created us with everything we need to get where we are going, it is up to us to figure out the right path............ we were all born with natural talents, character traits to get us where we need to be.............. we just need to step back and take stock of our own personal configrations,,,,,,,,,,,,that is my belief,

Chuck

May 22nd, 2005, 03:52 PM

I have been walking since 1994 with that avatar. It started a slight limp around 2003 but still keeps trucking.

I can't believe in a pre planned destiny of any type. In my faith life is totally free will. If I believed in a destiny then I would have believe that it is the destiny of a child molester to be just that. I cannot believe that is God's Will.

I do believe that for one second in this life I will know everything. In the next second I shall pass.

annieap

May 22nd, 2005, 04:53 PM

I had a couple things ready to post but figured what was the use? Everything I say is misconstrued or used as an object of humor or I get accused of being bully...which is really funny.

GirlColumbo

May 22nd, 2005, 06:49 PM

you know chuck, i used to think the same way about cold blooded killers and child moltesters, and i had a hard time believing God would create humans who would do such horrific acts, then one day it hit me that that person chose to be the way they are, we could argue the fact that some killers were mistreated as children as well, but there are millions of adults who have dealt with being molested, abused and such but they chose to live their life a different way, hence they chose another path....

i guess what i am saying is this is my brains way of dealing with the fact that what you just said goes on too often, and if i didnt have another way to think about it i would simply go crazy. same way with children born mentally retarded or without limbs, etc....

I am not sure if i believe in a pre-determined destiny just that GOD created us with the mind to create the life he planned for us. in a way i guess we could both be on the right track, free will to choose the right way or the wrong,
when i have trouble is when i think of all the horrible things that humans have suffered, and i have a hard time dealing with what good thing can come from any of it.
and i do know for sure that when i try to explain my thoughts......i totally confuse myself sometimes.

GirlColumbo

May 22nd, 2005, 06:53 PM

Annie i think that it is much easier to chew on a persons words if we leave out the you and insert i feel this way or i believe, truth be told we are all looking for the same answer only in a different way....................

kcredden

May 23rd, 2005, 12:56 AM

[Grrr] GirlC, you are GOOD at bringing out new topics for discussion, taht needs to be put into another thread. Lets see what happens.

But as to below, that's one of my "life experiences" I've seen in my life. May be an odd, but sensitive ability to see patterns in data I have. When I look back at my life, it always seems that I've been guided in someway toward something I haven't yet got too. Weird!

i think life is pre destined and we have free choice to choose the correct path, God created us with everything we need to get where we are going, it is up to us to figure out the right path............ we were all born with natural talents, character traits to get us where we need to be.............. we just need to step back and take stock of our own personal configrations,,,,,,,,,,,,that is my belief,

Groundhog

May 23rd, 2005, 11:09 AM

Man...leave town for a couple of days and the things you miss...grins. Hmmm...where to start. First, I understand why people of certain religious beliefs will not consider the other possibilities. I was once like that. Who really knows. The last time I checked the Hubble had photographed a deep space obect that was 8 billion light years away. We as humans can measure such things, but to really be able to understand just how far away 8 billion light years is...WOW! Do people really think that in all of this vast ocean of stars and planets we are the only intellegent beings around??? I know that if I were an alien, I wouldn't expose myself to the people of this planet. For one thing, if an alien spacecraft landed several things could possible happen given the religious climate of this planet. The fundies would lable them demons, here to deceive the godly, and cause them to be lost to an everlasting ****, bla, bla, bla. When they finally figured out that they were not demons, then there would be a lot of backstepping and re-interpertation of the Bible, Koran, whatever. Then the poor aliens, who have learned to travel over vast distances of space, and perhaps time, would be subjected to a movement to convert them to the "One and only true God." If it were me I'd beam up and warp out of orbit, cause there an't no intelligent life on Earth. So that is what I think about that. Now, for the other, choice vs. destiny. Wiccians do not believe in a devil, although we are accused of worshipping one. It is strange that one cannot worship what one does not believe in. I have talked to Christians about this, and the conversation usually ends up the same. Tell them that you are pagan...they try to convert you. Tell them that you don't believe in Jesus as they do...they have hurt feelings. Tell them you don't believe in the devil, and they're ready to fight. Hmmm. But anyway, as I said, Wiccians don't believe in the devil...therefore IF WE DO ANYTHING THAT COULD BE CONSIDERED SINFUL, EVIL, OR JUST RIGHT OUT WRONG we can't say the devil made us do it. No one made us do it, we did it ourselves, and we did it knowing what we were doing. We can go to the Goddess or the God ask for forgiveness for what we did that was wrong, but we believe and understand that we still have to pay for that sin. In other words, if you are Wiccian, you can't treat people bad all week and then roll into circle at the next full moon, and tell the Goddess and God that you're all sorry the devil made me do it cop-out excuse, and it's forgotten, like other certain religions will allow. Now, about the problem of child molesters, murders, drug dealers, etc. The problem with this is that we show them mercy. The old pagan peoples of Europe would usually kill them on the spot as soon as they were caught. The Celts for example would save up all their criminals and enemies all year and then scarfice them in the Wicker Man. Now that would make one think twice before they committed a criminal act, wouldn't you think?

annieap

May 23rd, 2005, 04:06 PM

It is strange that one cannot worship what one does not believe in.

Wow! We actually agree on something.

acoolmom777

May 24th, 2005, 09:03 AM

Here is a daily site I go to, thought some might like it....it has a little for everyone....

http://www.beliefnet.com/index.html?rnd=56

acoolmom777

May 24th, 2005, 12:49 PM

I had some sort of dream lastnight that woke me with many mixed feelings or maybe it wasn’t a dream it was something I was suppose to feel.(God has a way of showing me things I may not always want to see...)

On this thread we have done nothing but get mad at each other for their beliefs, either out of fear, misunderstanding, or for the pure fact that “WE” are always right…

Think about this…you have but not limited to …..the following (not all religions are listed so it was not put as an offence to anyone)

1. Christianity: 2.1 billion
2. Islam: 1.3 billion
3. Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist: 1.1 billion
4. Hinduism: 900 million
5. Chinese traditional religion: 394 million
6. Buddhism: 376 million
7. primal-indigenous: 300 million
8. African Traditional & Diasporic: 100 million
9. Sikhism: 23 million
10. Juche: 19 million
11. Spiritism: 15 million
12. Judaism: 14 million
13. Baha'i: 7 million
14. Jainism: 4.2 million
15. Shinto: 4 million
16. Cao Dai: 4 million
17. Zoroastrianism: 2.6 million
18. Tenrikyo: 2 million
19. Neo-Paganism: 1 million
20. Unitarian-Universalism: 800 thousand
21. Rastafarianism: 600 thousand
22. Scientology:

But who and what makes each religion right…are we all not striving towards one goal…the afterlife of our belief?

So why is it such a hot topic…why do we have to be right.. does my soul and afterlife, depend on what you believe…no I don’t think so. I am in control of that me, myself and I.

Here is an example…I Believe…

In God almighty, the creator, the alpha and the omega

Jesus died on the cross for our sins, and through him I shall have everlasting life.

The Holy Spirit …is the famine face of God

In Mother Nature

In Fairies

In Angels
You earn your place in heaven

Heaven…most beautiful place that we never we could ever imagine

Hell…not the fire and brimstone type…(the bible is a book of God’s parables to teach us…Jesus spoke mainly in parables…. **** is what we hate the most, things that make us miserable and ugly and hateful…do you want that as your eternity…I think not. If you warship the devil and he is your god, then when you died is hells fire and brimstone not your heaven or would your **** be you dressed in white listening to a preacher 24/7 for eternity.

Good and Evil

In free will

Destiny…that I have control over

In auras, karma and energy

That if you are a good person you will receive good

That if you are a bad person you will receive bad

This is just a few of “MY” beliefs and I have many more questions yet to be answered. In my life quest.

Do I believe, we are human beings working towards a spiritual reality
“NO” I believe we are spiritual beings working towards are placement in eternity. In the Bible it says we were made in his image (God)…do I think he is a human being like we are supposed to be…No I don’t, therefore if we were created in his image, that makes us spiritual beings.

These are MY beliefs and feeling, …they are me…if you disagree with them, so be it, because you and your beliefs do not effect my soul….or my placement in eternity.

We are all here for one reason or another...no where in any belief (that I know of) does it say to hate your brother....or did I miss something?

I love this board and have made many friends here, it has because a part of my life and me..I just wanted to let you all know I respect each and everyone of you...and your beliefs....... and I do hope that the few that have left will come back and be a part of this also.....:)

Chuck

May 24th, 2005, 02:25 PM

Your count is off. you have over 7 billion people and there are only 5.? billion on the earth last I checked.

Just giving you a hard time.

Also where do the Jehovah Witnesses fall cause there are like 500,000 of them recruiting and they have only 144,000 going to heaven. I want to see that fight at the end.

Jeremy

May 24th, 2005, 03:49 PM

Good point Chuck. Something's off with those numbers :) Eventhough there's actually around 6.5 billion people, the numbers assume that every living person is religious, and that every one of them fall into one of those religions. That's alright though, the post is a good point.

By the way, here's a good link: http://www.overpopulation.org

Something I feel strongly about.

annieap

May 24th, 2005, 04:03 PM

Number 3 on the list accounts for nonreligious.

Jeremy

May 24th, 2005, 04:11 PM

Missed that one. Quite right, number 3 does account for non-religious.

acoolmom777

May 24th, 2005, 04:46 PM

oh please....lol.... :eek: I said I was sorry if I missed any...take it up with the internet...I didn't want the numbers just the names, the numbers just tagged along..... :p

GirlColumbo

May 25th, 2005, 01:51 AM

mark

May 26th, 2005, 12:07 AM

Hey Coolmom, your post just reminded me of a book that i would like to write someday, i plan to title it "Get The **** Out", it would be about all the hells we live with on a perosnnal basis and how we can get rid of them and start living a more quality filled and meaningful life.

I can probably help some out with my following advice: ( IMO )

1. Don't associate oneself with unbelievers or troublemakers. There are plenty of "fun" things to do without going thru those hassles.

2. Find a good church that teaches the Bible to attend, tithe 10% & receive your blessings from heaven.

3. Avoid bars, nightclubs, gambling boats, etc. Those places will get one into trouble in some way & usually quickly.

4. Do a good deed for others & you'll be looked upon as friendly & fun to be with.

5. Wake up daily thanking God you can go to work, instead of griping about it.

6. Don't get upset over things, that will only bring on ulcers.

Live life as you receive it, it makes things easier............see ya Mark

annieap

May 26th, 2005, 12:38 AM

Mark,
I dont think I agree with number one on your list. Are Christians not supposed to witness to nonbelievers and make the love of Christ known unto them? Christ associated with sinners and nonbelievers for the purpose of bringing them to the saving knowledge that all sinners must both "see" and "hear". And as Christians, are we not suppose to be as Christlike as possible? If we avoid the sinner or nonbeliever, we are not being Christlike.
All sinners need to be treated with the same respect and love that Christ showed nonbelievers as written in the Gospels. Period. To treat a sinner otherwise, or to shun a nonbeliever is wrong biblically unless they are a professed Christian who continues "unrepentant" in sin.
Avoid the sin. Not the sinner. Christ himself never taught that we should stay away from those we should be leading to the cross in the first place.

mark

May 26th, 2005, 01:04 AM

......................Annie, you have a good point and I agree with your thoughts to a point. Maybe I should give you my "reference" as to why I said that:

2 Corinthians 6:14-15 (New International Version)

Do Not Be Yoked With Unbelievers
14Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? 15What harmony is there between Christ and Belial[a]? What does a believer have in common with an unbeliever?

I probably should have left out the "troublemakers" part of my post. The main difference I tried to portray in my original post is........witnessing to unbelievers is something Christians should always do, hanging out with them in my opinion is something that can get one into trouble.

Example is #3. If I witness to them, that's great...... If I "associate" with them, I become one of them eventually & I don't want to do that.

Good to be back posting again.................see ya Mark

annieap

May 26th, 2005, 01:22 AM

My reference is:
Matthew 9:11-13 (New International Version)

11When the Pharisees saw this, they asked his disciples, "Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and 'sinners'?"
12On hearing this, Jesus said, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. 13But go and learn what this means: 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.'[a] For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners."

With this I am not condoning hanging out at the corner bar, but the communication should not be limited to strictly witnessing. How can one make a difference in a nonbeliever's life without offering opportunity to see the inner self? A five minute witness in the line at the grocery store is ok, but an hour lunch is better. Allowing a nonbeliever to see that Christian behavior isn't reserved for Sunday morning only is worth much more than the hit-and-run witnessing.
If Christians associate and befriend only other Christians, who will be left to extend the hand of righteousness to those in need?
As far as getting into trouble, one's beliefs should be strong enough and the love of God far greater than the temptation.

GirlColumbo

May 26th, 2005, 11:56 PM

naw mark, that is not where girlc is coming from.......
Most of our mortal hells are worring too much instead of getting on with our lives and trying to live in the moment....... for me my biggest personal **** has always been worring that i was good enough to be in the same crowd of people who are better off than me, or if people thought my nose was big or if i was fat or silly nonsense stuff like that, and that because i am not college educated that what i say is less important........

another example, for me, i used to worry what people thought when they would see me talking to the town drunk, well i knew that person had a good heart, just didnt handle lifes adversities like some of us would, and sometimes he needed a nice person to talk to.........his personal hells were worth listening to in my opinion, i could not change his life,or his habits, but one thing i do know, he knew someone on this earth cared about him as a person,

I tend to be drawn to people who have mental problems, the ones that walk the streets in our home towns, my heart goes out to them when i see other taunting them...................( a personal **** that needs to be addressed by the person who feels cruelty is macho)

I am getting off subject here, but trying to explain what i feel are personal hells........

mark

May 27th, 2005, 12:35 AM

.................thanks for responding. I personally quit worrying about a lot of stuff I have no control over several years ago after reading Matthew 6 in my Bible. I realize I can't control what others thinks of me so I now carry the attitude of "who cares" what they think. I try my best to be good, stay away from gossip & generally don't care what others does. ( or thinks )
Don't get me wrong, I wish no one harm, I just choose the battles I want to deal with.

You can ask my wife......she still is amazed I occasionally wear 2 different color socks to work.

I say "Who cares" & you know what????

I don't.................see ya Mark

ponto

May 27th, 2005, 03:13 AM

If we could shrink the earth's population to a village of precisely 100
people, with all the existing human ratios remaining the same, it would look
"something" like the following:

70 would be non-Christian

30 would be Christian

89 would be heterosexual

11 would be homosexual

1 would own a computer

and you might be interested to know,

If you woke up this morning with more health than illness...you are
more blessed than the million who will not survive this week.

If you can attend a church meeting without fear of harassment, arrest, torture, or death...you are more blessed than three billion people in the world.

Dance like nobody's watching / Sing like nobody's listening.

.

snowtiger

May 29th, 2005, 11:13 AM

kcredden

May 29th, 2005, 11:25 AM

That is one good point, Snowtiger. The female has always been opressed, not sure why but it does seem to be mostly due to religious reasons. Take the Muslian faith. I don't need to remind how women are treated that way. Even in more christian faiths, and offshoots such as Almish, women arn't equal to men in various degrees.

It's shown time and time again, that in goverment, that goverment with female members are much more moderate, than ones with a pure male consignment.

Besides, I know that women are our equals. I'd say 'yes sir' to a female officer if I was in the military, just as fast as I'd say it to a male.

There are two main reasons why I veered away from the Christian religion. One, it is mainly a patriarcal belief system. By that I mean, MEN are the power and the rule makers. Two, there were a lot of good laws in there that pertained to that era in time, but not so much now. For example the one that I think would only pertain to back then is not allowing men to spill their "seed" on the "ground." Well....we probably needed to proliferate the species a little more then, but definitely not now!! Do you understand where I'm going with this?

mark

May 29th, 2005, 11:14 PM

..................nope, explain a little further.................see ya Mark

annieap

May 29th, 2005, 11:23 PM

Besides, I know that women are our equals. I'd say 'yes sir' to a female officer if I was in the military, just as fast as I'd say it to a male.

If someone responded to me with a 'yes sir' I would feel disrespected. We may be created equally, but I am still 100% female through & through and want to be recognized as just that.

GirlColumbo

May 30th, 2005, 12:50 AM

if ya really think about it we are not equals, our minds think differently, our bodies react differently, our chemistry is not the same, we learn quite differently, our genetic make up and muscle mass is quite different.
my understanding is woman was created as a friend to man, someone to share the earth with as a soul mate, on the other hand i do think men and women should be paid the same wages for the work they can both do, but i wont go as far as saying we are so equal that we are gonna have to share the same public bathrooms, remember when that issue came up in the 70's

Jeremy

May 30th, 2005, 01:22 AM

Ah, but just because we are different, does that make us not equal? Difference is a factual thing where equality is an opinion thing, more a concept than the nuts and bolts of biology. Women and men are different in biology, etc. But they can be equal because equality is a value judgement. It's a concept that, even though we may not have achieved it yet, is a goal that can be obtained.

Another way to put it is that just because we might need two different bathrooms, an effort towards the concept of equality would suggest that men should have a couch in their bathrooms too!

GirlColumbo

May 30th, 2005, 02:01 AM

, men would not need a couch, they are too macho to say oh gee i have a head ache, what they would prefer is a wide screen tv to ward off that headache, ha ha ha ha

no no no, (said softly)when you get down to the nuts and bolts, men and women are not equals, our physical strenths keep us from being equals, equal means completely the same right? our thought process is not equal, too many differences to say we are equal just being male and female makes us not equal, we are not the same, we were not intended to be the same,

then there is this thought..........1 male + 1 female = then that child could be an equal...................
girl C is just messing with ya mind, been a long long long week and tomorrow it starts all over again

Jeremy

May 30th, 2005, 02:32 AM

Would love a widescreen TV, but that's another story.

Again, equality is not an absolute, so it entirely depends on how you look at it. In it's basic sense equality is an equation.

Strength Value Stereotype Equation:
1 Female Strength < 1 Male Strength

However, as I said, it's entirely concept based and depends on what equation you are trying to work out. Here's another example:

General Value as a an Effective Human Stereotype Equation:
1 Female Nuturing Capabilities = 1 Male Hunting/Gathering Capabilities

As you can see in the second example, when we look at strengths of each gender it balances out. So, again, it is a value judgement.

What values are male and what values are female, and do they balance out so that one is not better (another value judgement) than the other, the balance being equal. It really depends on what value you are assessing.

If you think solely in terms of strength then perhaps you are right (although many women can kick my butt). If you think what gender is more capable of doing a particular task, for instance childbirth, obviously one might be more capable than the other.

If you think in terms of how someone should be treated, men and women can totally be treated as equals. Whatever a man lacks in one category, they make up in another. Same with women. The pure concept of equality is matched in that regard alone.

There are so many variables involved that any concept of equality automatically falls into a context of what value you are assessing.

In kcredden's example above of the value of men and women to be soldiers, in today's military, it is equal. Pure physical strength (again we are talking stereotype here) is not as important in today's military where you can just push buttons and bomb people rather than toss spears at them.

Equal doesn't mean "same" by the way, and that's my point. It simply means equivalent. For example 1 + 1 is not the "same" as 2 in the strictest sense, but the two ones and plus sign is the "equivalent" of two. Two is not the "same" as 2 (one is a word that represents a number and the other is just a number) but they are equivalents.

navywife

May 30th, 2005, 08:44 AM

It's shown time and time again, that in goverment, that goverment with female members are much more moderate, than ones with a pure male consignment.

Besides, I know that women are our equals. I'd say 'yes sir' to a female officer if I was in the military, just as fast as I'd say it to a male.

I was trying to stay out of it but now it has come to my front door --
Kevin the first time that you say "yes sir" to a female officer would be your last day in the military --(sorry)
You would be seeing "the man" no matter if it is a female and you better hope he isn't a she.....
On equal rights all I have to say it that some liberal women are taking this further than the suppression of the Africans. Women are NOT completely equal and never will be ....and guess what the only thing that makes that worst is when people try to change it ......

snowtiger

May 30th, 2005, 08:50 AM

I don't think he was speaking literally.

GirlColumbo

May 30th, 2005, 06:27 PM

equal is of the same value or measure....

so looks like i have to change my mind..............simply put men and women are definately of the same value

kcredden

May 30th, 2005, 07:56 PM

GirlC, NavyWife, and AnnieEp.

Looks like the old writer's thing of 'Writers only write about things they experienced' is true in this case. I've never been in the military, so I didn't now about the 'Yes sir' to a female thing. About the only thing I know of the military aside from documentories on the History Channel, is old war movies, with very few female leaders.

But I think I need to re-do my post. Basically I was saying that no matter the gender. If the person *earned* their post, then I'd have no problems in expressing my respect, reguarless of their gender.

So a 'Yes Ma'am' would be the right statement, and I'd follow a female leader as fast as I'd a male one. For it's not the gender, but the experience, skills, leadership, and other things in their head that truely matters.

But then, you know me. I tend to see people mentally, not physcially.

Thank you Snowtiger, I just needed to re-evaulate what I said. I'm a dumb male at times :)

mark

May 30th, 2005, 11:41 PM

There are two main reasons why I veered away from the Christian religion. One, it is mainly a patriarcal belief system. By that I mean, MEN are the power and the rule makers. Two, there were a lot of good laws in there that pertained to that era in time, but not so much now. For example the one that I think would only pertain to back then is not allowing men to spill their "seed" on the "ground." Well....we probably needed to proliferate the species a little more then, but definitely not now!! Do you understand where I'm going with this?

..............It saddens me that you veer away from the Christian religion. I think women with protestant beliefs has far more respect than other religions. At least you can dress how you wish.

I'll add this to. In the 60's, some women wanted "Equal Rights" forced down society's throat. Guess ( IMO ) what happened then??

Men gave women what they wanted & here are a few examples of what I mean:

How many women have doors opened for to walk thru? ( before a man does)

How many women receive compliments if they are well dressed??

These are examples if things men USE to do to/for ladies in the past but no longer do due to the risk of being sent to court for "sexual harrassment".

***********and that's a shame**********

Here's a thought from my Bible:

Proverbs 14:1 (NIV)

1 The wise woman builds her house,
but with her own hands the foolish one tears hers down.

I'd like to see women in our society go back to the way it use to be.
Forget the court system & enjoy the respect you deserve..................see ya Mark

GirlColumbo

May 31st, 2005, 12:05 AM

Bottom line is always gonna be RESPECT male or female and then mabe some of that good ole masking tape to fix ever thang

navywife

May 31st, 2005, 08:42 AM

kcredden

May 31st, 2005, 01:28 PM

Quite all right, Lisa. No offense was taken. At least now I know, and that's the most critical thing now :)

Thanks!

Kevin
I did not mean anything on my post --I was just stating facts lol
I just wanted to let you and everyone eles who doesn't know the military -That is my life hence the name lol

Groundhog

August 4th, 2005, 11:44 AM

Did you know that the story in the Bible concerning the Noah and the flood was taken from an older version that dates back to ancient Babylon. While both stories read almost the same the names for the main characters have been changed. Hmmmm.

Sofa King

November 14th, 2006, 03:41 AM

"I have found Christian dogma unintelligible. Early in life, I absented myself from Christian assemblies."
"Lighthouses are more helpful then churches."

-Benjamin Franklin, American Founding Father, author, and inventor

"I do not consider it an insult, but rather a compliment, to be called an agnostic. I do not pretend to know where many ignorant men are sure. "

- Clarence Seward Darrow, American lawyer (1857-1938).

"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one."

- George Bernard Shaw, Irish-born English playwright (1856-1950).

"The divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity."
"This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it."

-John Adams, U.S. President, Founding Father of the United States

"In no instance have . . . the churches been guardians of the liberties of the people."
"Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise."

James Madison, American president and political theorist (1751-1836).

"If Christ were here now there is one thing he would not be -- a Christian."
"A man is accepted into a church for what he believes and he is turned out for what he knows."

Mark Twain", American author and humorist (1835-1910).

"Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity."

–Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782.

"The Bible is not my book nor Christianity my profession. I could never give assent to the long, complicated statements of Christian dogma."

- Abraham Lincoln, American president (1809-1865).

And finaly...

"And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerve in the brain of Jupiter. But may we hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with this artificial scaffolding, and restore to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of this most venerated reformer of human errors." –Thomas Jefferson, Letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823

To say our founding fathers were solely concerned with freedom of religion is false. I would be more accurate to say: Our forefathers were more concerned with freedom from religion.

acoolmom777

November 14th, 2006, 09:42 AM

Dude, you need to get off the couch more...lol

Religion bashing of any kind is a waste of heartbeats and we only have a certain number of them…now respecting a persons choice is much more calming…

I have found that religion is not… who you are, or what you are, it is how you are. I am talking all religions, when you truly believe in something, it will reflex in how you live your life and actions. There is a higher power, and that came into my life right from my birth and many generations before me. It was a religion that I was supposed to grow and embrace. Truth be known, it scared the crap out of me. Then by the time I reached my pre-teen years, I thought…. this is cool, I need to change my name to Sabrina…lol… about that same time they were trying to tell me in school, that we evolved from apes…lol…to funny.

So that put me on my journey to find the truth….and that my friend is why I am happy today. I have a mixture in my religion. My soul, my heart and my faith….I will have to live with my actions I produce thru my faith….but so be it, it harms no one.

Everyday regions facts in MY life….

My new neighbor ask me why
Q… I don’t rake my leaves…
A…I love the blanket of color God laid on my lawn…

Q…Why do you talk to the stars at night…
A…I don’t, I am being thankful for all creations…

Q…Don’t you wish so and so would drop dead…
A…Be careful what you wish for my friend…

Q…Isn’t that neighbor down the street in a pain…
A…That my friend is the truth…lol…(I am only human)

We could sit around and spend our whole lives, defending OUR religions, until we are blue in the face….but what would we get from that other than a headache. I have come to the conclusion (and only recently too) that I am the only one that is in control of my life, and happiness. Religion is a part of my salvation, and me… I am in control of that and it’s out come.

So Mr. "Sofa"…if you are going to sit there, why not scoot over and make room for friends... I'll bring the java...(and Foxy will bring the cookies...lol)..:)

kcredden

November 14th, 2006, 10:27 AM

Well said, both Sofaking, and Acoolmom. Thanks for not getting into a flame war over this.

Foxy

November 14th, 2006, 01:36 PM

So Mr. "Sofa"…if you are going to sit there, why not scoot over and make room for friends... I'll bring the java...(and Foxy will bring the cookies...lol)..:)

How about I bring the B-day cake!!! LOL.. it almost my birthday ya know... (the 26th.. hint...hint...hint..) We can all sit around and discuss our views. lmbo!!

JohnQ

November 14th, 2006, 01:42 PM

I am a Christian. I realize that not everyone has my same beliefs, even fellow Christians, but I do know that taking prayer out of public schools is wrong. That is not religious freedom, that is keeping everyone from expressing their faith. Christian, Muslim, Jehovah Witnesses all should be allowed to pray. I pray several times a day and on a bad day that is what gets me through. Everyone has the right to their own beliefs, and we should love our fellow man. It is not for us to judge

acoolmom777

November 14th, 2006, 04:38 PM

Sadly; prayer is an old war…a battle that will never be won or lost…..I pray all day long, and the person standing next to me in the grocery store, Wal-Mart, Bank, etc…wouldn’t even know it. I don’t pray out loud or fall on the floor, or scream and shout (which is not wrong)….mine is silently and between my soul and my God(s). I have taught my daughter, the freedom of praying when and where she wants…she does not have to have her eyes closed or be on her knees, just talking with her soul. Surely if he/she knows every hair on our head, then he/she can hear our whispers.

Foxy - B-cake is great...:) (but I stop having them after the age of....???....ha ha...I think not....a lady never tells her age...lol)

Sofa King

November 14th, 2006, 05:07 PM

Dude, you need to get off the couch more...lol

Religion bashing of any kind is a waste of heartbeats and we only have a certain number of them…now respecting a persons choice is much more calming…

So Mr. "Sofa"…if you are going to sit there, why not scoot over and make room for friends... I'll bring the java...(and Foxy will bring the cookies...lol)..:)

How is quoting founding fathers and important historical figures religion bashing? My only point is to make the founding fathers "myth" just that. A Myth. I could care less if you worshiped the mighty ant god. As long as you don't shove it down my throat. I have found.. a long time ago, that if I express my opinions on religions I am not only chastised but am penalized professionally for those opinions. What kind of freedom is that?

Am I less a man/woman for not limiting myself to a divine creator?

Sofa King

November 14th, 2006, 05:08 PM

bikerwannabe

November 14th, 2006, 05:24 PM

acoolmom777

November 14th, 2006, 05:31 PM

How is quoting founding fathers and important historical figures religion bashing? My only point is to make the founding fathers "myth" just that. A Myth. I could care less if you worshiped the mighty ant god. As long as you don't shove it down my throat. I have found.. a long time ago, that if I express my opinions on religions I am not only chastised but am penalized professionally for those opinions. What kind of freedom is that?

Am I less a man/woman for not limiting myself to a divine creator?

Bashing is.. if the product up for discussion (religion in this case) is not shown form both sides. I’m sure there are founding fathers that have just as many quotes about religion being good for people/country, as there are quotes about how bad it is…

Here at BBS we pride ourselves on letting everyone speak their peace without pushing anything down anyone’s throat. As for professionally, I have a business, and my religious beliefs are just that…my beliefs, and if someone doesn’t want to be around me for them, then so be it.

Sofa King

November 14th, 2006, 05:42 PM

interestedreader

November 14th, 2006, 05:53 PM

Since the pet people are not happy with me I thought I would come over here where disagreeing seems to be ok.

NBC's today show has been having a segment on religion this week everyday. It has been very interesting and includes all points of view from atheist to wican and everything in between.

I wonder if we put life in terms of spirituality rather than religion (being a set of beliefs) if we would have less agreement or more. I believe strongly that both the sacred and the secular should be avaliable in our schools - teaching courses on religion is a start - exploring the development of spirituality through history could be educational. Moralility vs religous belief vs spirituality could spark conversation.

I belong to a specific religon but do not ascribe to all the tenents of that faith - should I be burned at the stake or applauded for using my (God-given) intellect?

Should religion be the basic for our political decisions? Should we elect someone only because they are pro-life or pro-choice, or because they believe that marriage is only between a male & a female or that marriage is a committment between two people who love one another?

I am pro-life . . . and pro-choice. . . and while many will see that as an impossibility, I believe it to be entirely rational. And both views come from my religious and spiritual beliefs and my life experience.

And while I can not imagine myself not believing in a superiour being of some sort, I respect that there are many who do not and do not think that means they are wrong or bad or condemned in any way.

What I do not like are those who cloak themselves in religion, condemning others, but themselves violating basic moral tenents - such as not doing intentional harm to others.

Just random thoughts.

acoolmom777

November 14th, 2006, 05:57 PM

You have the power (on this board) to limit my speech. I ask that you look at this discussion as an unbiased moderator and allow me to speak my mind as long as it doesn't hurt no one.

not a problem I am all for freedom of speech and good convo...

but the scriptures you quoted are old testament, and Christians don’t live by those laws any more…lol..my mom’s a Ordained Minister…we would go to **** for sure, if that was the case....:p

acoolmom777

November 14th, 2006, 06:01 PM

very nice post "interestedreader"

Sofa King

November 14th, 2006, 06:14 PM

Sorry, that was just a quick reference. But the ten commandments are also from the old testament, as is the creation of man. I do not intend to debate the bible's validity. Or what's believed and not believed of the bible by todays' Christians.

mark

November 15th, 2006, 12:18 AM

Then thank you for allowing me to express my opinions. I'm sorry that one can quote scripture from the bible about good things. Yet is wouldn't be acceptable had someone quoted something like this:

1 Corinthians 14: 34-35
34”The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says.

35”If they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is improper for a woman to speak in church.

My point being, you seem like a very intelligent woman. Please don't let my beliefs, or the lack of believing the same as you get in the way of my freedom to speak my mind.

I was posting those quotes to make a small point. Not to bash any religion. Similar to they way some quote scriptures to get their's across..

You have the power (on this board) to limit my speech. I ask that you look at this discussion as an unbiased moderator and allow me to speak my mind as long as it doesn't hurt any one.

True. Speech hurts no one. However, I love the proverbs in my Bible. They have some of the smartest verses known to man. For example....
I like these verses in my Bible:

Proverbs 31:10-11 (New International Version)

10 [a] A wife of noble character who can find?
She is worth far more than rubies.

11 Her husband has full confidence in her
and lacks nothing of value.

Girls, take heart, a good man is highly respectful, admires you & if he's smart, he listens to you................see ya mark

Foxy

November 15th, 2006, 01:12 AM

I am pro-life . . . and pro-choice. . . and while many will see that as an impossibility, I believe it to be entirely rational. And both views come from my religious and spiritual beliefs and my life experience.
Ahh we agree. YEAH!! It is absolutely possible to be both.

Sofa King

November 15th, 2006, 01:41 AM

acoolmom777

November 15th, 2006, 10:01 AM

AS I said, I will not get into the debate of bible validity. I could show you nonsense in it all day. Just like you could justify that nonsense. It will get us no where. All that I have ever asked is it express my views just like christians do, and to not have "your" religion forced on me by legislation or acts against me.

First of all, no one said we were all Christians…as for forcing the Christian religion on anyone…I never did get that statement (you are not the first or last to say that)…

I see no signs in eating establishments that say you have to pray before eating
I see no written man law forcing you into a house of God
The Bible is not a mandatory book in school

As far as the 10 Commandments being posted somewhere or God we trust on are money…big deal. They are just words to the non-Christian….if you believe in them that’s great, if you don’t then so be it.

My dad and moms religion beliefs were so different you would think …how in the world did they get together…with out being burned at the stake or beheaded….(speaking in the old ways, of course)they were great together, because of the respect they had for each other and their sooooooo different beliefs. Their relationship taught me a lot in and about life.

I said before my mom is a Minister, I don’t believe everything that she does with the Christian religion, but does she still love me??? I hope so…lol
I believe that the Holy Spirit is the female face of God…she just looks at me and laughs, shakes her head and ask where she went wrong(that is the mother part in her, as a preacher she brings it up every chance she gets). I believe in Fairies, I believe that the more we hurt our environment the more angered Mother Nature becomes. But I also believe in Jesus Christ and that he is the Son of God and died on the Cross.

When I was younger I used to go to Church once in a while with my best friend, she was a Catholic….we used to laugh because my religion was so far off from that of a Catholic…but did it kill me or ruin my life, or change who I was??? No I did it because she ask me too. Same with her and my religion.

You will get to a point in life; where you will think…”who cares, this does not effect any breath that goes in or comes out of my body” and that will make life a lot easier….Again these are things “I believe”…

As far as "Expressing your views"....go for it, that is what this board and post are all about...just be sure to keep in check any deep rooted anger, and pass on respect to others.

Here is a great link.....http://www.beliefnet.com/index.html?rnd=56

SomeDude

November 15th, 2006, 02:28 PM

This is not directed toward any one person but simply, expressing my view. I'd rather live my life having faith in God's existence and find out it was a delusion. Then living my life not believing in God and find out he is in fact real. However, I do think some religions are delusional. They have taken contents from the bible and tailored it to fit their own lifestyle and or interpretation. Otherwise, why are their so many denominations just within Christianity alone? This leads me to believe that most people today do not doubt God’s existence. We are on a journey to weed out truth from fiction, which comes from our forefather’s misconceptions and misinterpretations.

interestedreader

November 15th, 2006, 02:35 PM

We are definitely on a journey, although none of us is on the same journey. I would rather live my life as a giving, kind, genrous, moral person - whether I believe in God or not - and take my chances - because if this is the only one, I'd prefer it be one that is geared toward doing good for all peoplekind of whatever religion, or of none.

acoolmom777

November 15th, 2006, 02:49 PM

stands up and claps for both.."somedude" and "interestedreader"
I respect both of your views...both well written and expressed with respect to other's views....

<clap><clap><clap>

Sofa King

November 15th, 2006, 03:20 PM

Sofa King

November 15th, 2006, 03:35 PM

First of all, no one said we were all Christians…as for forcing the Christian religion on anyone…I never did get that statement (you are not the first or last to say that)…

I see no signs in eating establishments that say you have to pray before eating
I see no written man law forcing you into a house of God
The Bible is not a mandatory book in school

As far as the 10 Commandments being posted somewhere or God we trust on are money…big deal. They are just words to the non-Christian….if you believe in them that’s great, if you don’t then so be it.

Here is a great link.....http://www.beliefnet.com/index.html?rnd=56

The Bible is an excellent read and I think it should be part of any literature course. It ranks in my top ten of all time reads. Along with the Odyssey, the Odd Thomas series, The Jungle. Just to name a few.

And thanks to the interpretation of separation of church and state, I do not have to pray before I eat out. I do not have to kneel and pray when the whistle sounds, and I do not have to take the Bible the Koran or any other faith based book literally.

As far as the ten commandments I think they are good moral values to live by. However I think it's ludicrous to be stoned to death by not following one of them. I would never support legislation to get rid of either the commandment or the in god we trust.

Why? Because it is part of our American culture and heritage. And I would never support legislation that forces one belief on the masses. I only ask for the same in return. I also ask not to be penalized personally and professionally for my views.

I'd also like to apologize for limiting my comments to the christian faith. But it is with this faith I have received the most contempt from.

And another great link! http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

acoolmom777

November 15th, 2006, 04:50 PM

As far as the ten commandments I think they are good moral values to live by. However I think it's ludicrous to be stoned to death by not following one of them. I would never support legislation to get rid of either the commandment or the in god we trust.

See even with different opinons...we still can agree on something...:)

Sofa King

November 15th, 2006, 05:06 PM

Amazing huh?:D

Winky

November 15th, 2006, 07:10 PM

Be good.

Sofa King

November 15th, 2006, 07:39 PM

I'm always good.

Foxy

November 15th, 2006, 11:42 PM

And I am better!! lol
Okay now delete me for being off topic! lmbo
And to TheMan, if you are reading this..shup!

acoolmom777

November 16th, 2006, 09:36 AM

roflao...but you can't compete with the best......:p

now back to the topic...

interestedreader

November 16th, 2006, 12:41 PM

So, how about encouraging our legislature to permit history of religions to be taught in out high schools - as an elective of course - with better understanding of the development of religion - from the ancient greeks through the modern "Jones Cult", "mega-churches, the wicans, etc - would it, could it, possibly be that there would be greater understanding amongst us all and greater acceptance of the right of others to believe differently than we do?

In my personal life I was baptised and confirmed an anglican catholic, as a child attended the episcopal, Christian and Catholic churches, my grandfather was a lutheran, my college roommate for 3 years is jewish, I babysat for an orthodox jewish family when in school, have a dear friend who is Hindu, several who are agnostic, a childcare provider who is Morman, a friend who is a pentacostal minister, a sibling who I really can't quantify but is best described as an earth worshiper. I attend a mainstream Christian church and have my deepest spiritual moments when with my husband and children or digging in the garden or swimming at the Y.

I would fight for my right to my beliefs but I would also fight for everyone else's rights to theirs. No right, no wrong just different paths upon the journey - whatever that journey is and wherever it takes us.

From the Odessey, to Dante, to the bible, to Women who Run with the Wolves, the Koran (as unofficially translated) and Taoism I learn and find my place in the world of religions.

Causing death to others on the basis of their religious beliefs is against my religious beliefs! Would that everyone could get there.

Jeremy

November 16th, 2006, 05:27 PM

Teaching all of the religions in an effort to be fair to all of them probably won't fly either. The day Johnny comes home and gets ready for bed and Mom says, "Now make sure you say goodnight to Nanna in heaven," and little Johnny replies, "Nanna isn't in heaven Mommy. Buddha says she came back to life in another body and that sounds better to me," religion will be right back out of schools again :)

interestedreader

November 16th, 2006, 05:40 PM

TheMan

November 16th, 2006, 05:49 PM

And to TheMan, if you are reading this..shup!

Imma stay outta this one...

interestedreader

November 16th, 2006, 05:50 PM

Why? The more opinions the better!

TheMan

November 16th, 2006, 05:57 PM

Trust me.. It is better that I stay out of this one..

interestedreader

November 16th, 2006, 06:02 PM

Like me and pets, huh?

TheMan

November 16th, 2006, 06:06 PM

Or me and.....Vodka...;)

interestedreader

November 16th, 2006, 06:09 PM

No that's a whole new thread there. But that is an interesting issue in religion - the use of mind altering substances, the turning of wine into blood, ect. How does that fit in with poeple's religious views?

TheMan

November 16th, 2006, 06:11 PM

I think allot less people would have drinking problems...

Jeremy

November 16th, 2006, 06:30 PM

Its not teaching religions that's the point, it is teaching the history of religions. And when I had a child come home and say my teacher says that Preists can't be women, and we had a female pastor, it was a great time for me to educate my child about the differences in religious beliefs and that diffference is OK and that tolerence of other's beliefs is necessary.

You have a lot more faith in the teaching of history than I do :) Just teaching history has its own problems. Since history is an agreed upon version of events, what version gets taught? Already you have hot conflicts arise in teaching the history of the "Discovery of America". Were European explorers heroes in finding a new world, or pillagers who the abused Native Americans already living here? Depends on who you ask. Throw religion into that scenario and you have a bomb just waiting for a spark.

Besides, if the point of teaching religious history is to create a sense of religious tolerance, the system already becomes unneutral. Teaching religious tolerance is against some people's religious teachings. Choosing to teach religious tolerance in schools is already biasing the discussion in favor of more tolerant religious beliefs. That sounds good on the surface, but it creates the slippery slope of officially choosing what religious ideals are "good" and which are "bad". You end up with a pieced together official set of religious beliefs.

Now don't misinterpret what I'm saying here. I am all about religious tolerance. But the strongest ingredient to religious tolerance is the establishment clause that prevents the government from adopting an official religion. The second ingredient is putting out fires when they pop up. Introducing religion in any form into schools, in my opinion, would create way more fires than it would put out.

acoolmom777

November 17th, 2006, 08:21 AM

won't work... to many reasons why to list...lol

interestedreader

November 17th, 2006, 11:12 AM

The idea of teaching the history of religions is to use the various texts, as well as critical reading from a variety of sources - you know there are schools where this is taught and it does work. You make it a global perspective not a single perspectvie. And I just don't agree with "it wont work" - heard that too often about too many tings that then do work. Its just that thinking outside the box is a conceptual challenge!

TheMan

November 17th, 2006, 05:15 PM

The thinking is rarely the challenge.. It's the lack of that is challenging.

interestedreader

November 20th, 2006, 11:07 AM

Amen the Man!

Byron Mills

November 22nd, 2006, 05:51 PM

I think religion is the most deadly activity on the planet.

Eddie

November 22nd, 2006, 06:56 PM

Ya know, I've always been amazed at how people can seem to find God in those last few minutes of life, or just when life hits them with bad news.

Pretty amazing.

TheMan

November 22nd, 2006, 07:34 PM

Most of those people call themselves Christians.

Eddie

November 22nd, 2006, 10:20 PM

Most of those people call themselves Christians.

Pretty amazing huh?

TheMan

November 22nd, 2006, 10:31 PM

Not really..

interestedreader

November 24th, 2006, 12:29 PM

Religion -" belief and a personal God or gods . . .a particular system of faith or beliefs."

Religion is not the problem it is mans interpretation of the tenents of their particular faith.

Religion is a way of being in harmont with oneself, the earth and the world as a whole.

Religion is not Christianity, or Islam or Judaism or Hinduism or Toaism or wiccanism - it is any and all of those things. And every religion has at its core the betterment of self and others.

Eddie, so what if people turn to God when they are dying or in trouble - who are we to judge? Look in the mirror and ask yourself if you truely believe you have the right to pass judgment on soeone else in those circumstances.

I thin any god would say "better late than never".

acoolmom777

November 24th, 2006, 01:34 PM

That is just how I feel interestreader...and it was put beautifully...thank you...:)

mark

November 24th, 2006, 07:21 PM

Pretty amazing huh?

Yes, it is. Even those that asked to be saved at the last minute can be saved. Here's a neat story that talks about that:

Scripture: Matthew 20:1-16
1 "For the kingdom of heaven is like a householder who went out early in the morning to hire laborers for his vineyard. 2 After agreeing with the laborers for a denarius a day, he sent them into his vineyard. 3 And going out about the third hour he saw others standing idle in the market place; 4 and to them he said, `You go into the vineyard too, and whatever is right I will give you.' So they went.

5 Going out again about the sixth hour and the ninth hour, he did the same. 6 And about the eleventh hour he went out and found others standing; and he said to them, `Why do you stand here idle all day?' 7 They said to him, `Because no one has hired us.' He said to them, `You go into the vineyard too.'

8 And when evening came, the owner of the vineyard said to his steward, `Call the laborers and pay them their wages, beginning with the last, up to the first.' 9 And when those hired about the eleventh hour came, each of them received a denarius. 10 Now when the first came, they thought they would receive more; but each of them also received a denarius.

11 And on receiving it they grumbled at the householder, 12 saying, `These last worked only one hour, and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the day and the scorching heat.' 13 But he replied to one of them, `Friend, I am doing you no wrong; did you not agree with me for a denarius? 14 Take what belongs to you, and go; I choose to give to this last as I give to you.

15 Am I not allowed to do what I choose with what belongs to me? Or do you begrudge my generosity?' 16 So the last will be first, and the first last."

So, what is this parable saying??

If someone becomes a Christian early in life, he may spend decades practicing being a Christian , but in the end receive the same as one who became a Christian later in life and practiced it for a short time before his death.

Similarly, if two became Christians at the same time, but one lives shorter than the other one does, he would come to enter the rest first and enjoyed the treasures before the one who works longer, and entered last.

Therefore, I believe those that asks for forgiveness ( and sincerely mean it ) in those last few minutes before death are actually saved.........see ya mark

Jeremy

December 14th, 2006, 04:56 AM

The day Johnny comes home and gets ready for bed and Mom says, "Now make sure you say goodnight to Nanna in heaven," and little Johnny replies, "Nanna isn't in heaven Mommy. Buddha says she came back to life in another body and that sounds better to me," religion will be right back out of schools again :)

I can predict the future... it's amazing. Just a few days ago this story popped up:

http://blog.au.org/2006/12/falwells_flub_j.html

This is what happened: Two kids wanted to distribute fliers about their church’s Vacation Bible School to their peers via "backpack mail," a system of sending school notices home with kids.

The school says no, naturally.

Rev. Jerry Falwell jumps in and starts complaining about schools being anti-Christian and how schools should allow it. Eventually the school ended up changing the policy so that religious notices can go home in kid's backpacks.

Like I was saying previously, the people who want religion in schools really just want their religion. Proof in point, area pagans decided to take advantage of this backpack mail. Mailings from pagans went home with the children in early December. It had a pentagram on it and invited recipients to learn about other December traditions besides Christmas, followed by a "Pagan ritual to celebrate Yule."

The angry calls from parents started immediately. Many of them were outraged that the school could possibly allow witchcraft material to be distributed through their children. Most of them didn't know it was Falwell that caused it.

Read the reactions: http://readthehook.com/stories/2006/12/07/NEWS-pagans-B.rtf.aspx

Moral of the story... religion in public schools just doesn't work and those who want to "put prayer back in school" probably don't know what they're in for.