If more prisons were run like this one..............

[mark]

.......we probably would have less criminals breaking the law & wanting to go into a prison. I had a friend email this to me & I remember a 60 minutes segment about this sheriff about 10 years ago. Read on:

TO THOSE OF YOU NOT FAMILIAR WITH JOE ARPAIO - HE IS THE MARICOPA COUNTY SHERIFF AND HE KEEPS GETTING ELECTED OVER AND OVER.

THIS IS ONE OF THE REASONS WHY:

Sheriff Joe Arpaio (in Arizona) who created the "tent city jail":
# He has jail meals down to 40 cents a serving and charges the inmates for them.
# He stopped smoking and porno magazines in the jails. Took away their weights. Cut off all but "G" movies.
# He started chain gangs so the inmates could do free work on county and city projects.
# Then he started chain gangs for women so he wouldn't get sued for discrimination.
# He took away cable TV until he found out there was a federal court order that required cable TV for jails. So he hooked up the cable TV again only let in the Disney channel and the weather channel.
# When asked why the weather channel he replied, so they will know how hot it's gonna be while they are working on my chain gangs.
# He cut off coffee since it has zero nutritional value.
# When the inmates complained, he told them, "This isn't the Ritz/Carlton. If you don't like it, don't come back."
# He bought Newt Gingrich' lecture series on videotape that he pipes into the jails.
#When asked by a reporter if he had any lecture series by a Democrat, he replied that a democratic lecture series might explain why a lot of the inmates were in his jails in the first place.

More on the Arizona Sheriff:

# With temperatures being even hotter than usual in Phoenix (116 degrees just set a new record), the Associated Press reports: About 2,000 inmates living in a barbed-wire-surrounded tent encampment at the Maricopa County Jail have been given permission to strip down to their government-issued pink boxer shorts.

On Wednesday, hundreds of men wearing boxers were either curled up on their bunk beds or chatted in the tents, which reached 138 degrees inside the week before.

Many were also swathed in wet, pink towels as sweat collected on their chests and dripped down to their pink socks.

"It feels like we are in a furnace," said James Zanzot, an inmate who has lived in the tents for 1 ½ years. "It's inhumane."

Joe Arpaio, the tough-guy sheriff who created the tent city and long ago started making his prisoners wear pink, and eat bologna sandwiches, is not one bit sympathetic He said Wednesday that he told all of the inmates: "It's 120 degrees in Iraq and our soldiers are living in tents too, and they have to wear full battle gear, but they didn't commit any crimes, so shut your ****ed mouths!"

Way to go, Sheriff! Maybe if all prisons were like this one there would be a lot less crime and/or repeat offenders. Criminals should be punished for their crimes - not live in luxury until it's time for their parole, only to go out and commit another crime so they can get back in to live on taxpayers money and enjoy things taxpayers can't afford to have for themselves.

I couldn't agree with this sheriff more. I wonder what the return rate is of criminals at his jail. Maybe if we had more prisons like his instead of the country club prisons we have today, the crime rate would be less.

So, I'll ask this question & await your responses:

Is sheriff Joe too harsh or not harsh enough with his prison??? ...........see ya Mark

[kybikertrash]

I think it's great, although I'm shocked that some bleeding heart activist group hasn't protested it yet and had some judge order him to stop such "inhumane treatment".

[gleroyjr]

I also think th sheriff should be commended for what he is doing. IN mason county the dentntion center is a country club, they have tv, internet service,work release so they can excape and the cost of running the detentions center is outragous.
All the bleeding heart liberals would say that we are to hard on thisl misfits, but the same people keep comming back.
What mason county needs is someone who can run the detention center like the sheriff in arizona.

[Jeremy]

I hope they are serving life sentences because if not when they get out they are either going to be so conditioned to a hardened life that they will be unable to function in a normal society, or be so messed up mentally from such a traumatic experience that they are ticked off and commit a more violent crime. This wouldn't affect them so much if they were already messed up, or just going for 30 days or something like that. But the overwhelming majority of inmates in prisons are non-violent drug offenders who earn a mandatory of three years or more. I don't think I would come out normal after watching the Disney channel for three years straight. Three years of the Disney channel and being unable to afford a newspaper would mean that I wouldn't even know the country was at war. Way to go Sherrif. Way to think long term.

Added:

If this is the norm for the city jail which covers such offenders as traffic court and drunk on the town a bit too much, it is not only a bit harsh but unconstitutional. The constitution protects us from cruel and UNUSUAL punishment. Since most jails in the country are not like the one you describe, and this jail is quite unusual, the Sheriff himself is breaking a major law.

[kybikertrash]

The original post doesn't say that the inmates are not allowed visitors, so I can't believe they don't know we are at war. (While I'm on that subject, I think the sheriff told them "It's 120 degrees in Iraq and our soldiers are living in tents too, and they have to wear full battle gear, but they didn't commit any crimes, so shut your ****ed mouths!")

Surely if the want to know what is going on in the real world they can get that info from a family member during a visit or they can write a letter to a friend or relative to keep them posted. Before radio and TV most people got news via the pony express.

If they don't have visitors, they can surely get news from fellow inmates that do get visitors. I find it hard to believe they are that cut off from reality.

A lot of people in this country are homeless and live in boxes and don't even get a cot or a bologna sandwich, so I think these guys should count their blessings that they get three "hots" and a cot.

But then again, I've never been to jail (except for the time I got locked up for charity by my kids). Maybe I just don't get it! I've always obeyed the law, paid my bills, and tried to live by the straight and narrow and I think if more people would do that we wouldn't need to have this discussion.

If you can't do the time, don't do the crime!

[Eddie]

I remember watching this on 60 minutes a few years ago. I thought than, as I do now that every jail in the US should be ran this way. I think we all agree, for the average criminal, jail is not a deterant. Let's face it, most jails provide better living conditions than the criminals homes, so why would they care if their lcoked up.
I would even go as far as implementing the same system for juvenile offenders... make an impact while their young and can still be reached.
I remember the Sheriff saying that he refused to spend tax pay dollars to feed and house criminals, and if tents were good enough for our military, it's good enough for them
I say way to go! If anyone ran on the same platform here in Mason County, they would win in a walk.

[Jeremy]

Surely if the want to know what is going on in the real world they can get that info from a family member during a visit or they can write a letter to a friend or relative to keep them posted. Before radio and TV most people got news via the pony express.

Well, yeah, and like I said if they can afford the newspaper they'd get the news from there. But you're missing my point which is that most people who go to jail get out at some point or another and have to function in society, or at least that's the idea. This Sheriff just wants to make a name for himself by punishing a bunch of people in a way that no one else does. It's not a new idea. It's not novel at all. The history of jails have been about torturing and punishing criminals and this guy is a lightweight compared to them. And you know what? We still have crime This is not a super jail where everyone is reformed because they are afraid of going back. It's just a Sherriff with an ego problem.

I think we all agree, for the average criminal, jail is not a deterant.

Here's the statistics on prisons. One out of five people released on parole go back. Most of the people who get caught committing crimes are poor black people. Most are non-violent drug offenders.

And the ultimate fact about crime is that people who committ them believe that they won't get caught, and won't go to jail. Jail is not a deterant because they never believe they will go there.

So, how does subjecting people to the Disney channel, 116 degree weather, living in tents, chain gangs, etc. solve any of the social problems that send people to jail in the first place? Sure it is a harsh punishment. But harsh punishment does not equal law abiders. If it did crime would have been stomped out years ago when they cut off hands for stealing. That's more harsher and still people stole.

The simple fact is that jail is not a deterant. Been proven time and time again. So if some sadist gets his jollies from abusing some inmates he is not a hero, he's not a reformer, he's just a sadist. Googling crime statistics for MARICOPA COUNTY, ARIZONA turns up 192,909 crimes in 2000. That's really high for a population of 3,072,149. And he's been doing this ten years? Guess what, it's not working.

http://www.fedstats.gov/mapstats/crime/county/04013.html

[mark]

..................I somewhat have to disagree, prison IS a deterrent, especially while they are in there. The original email said this sheriff gets reelected over & over. He HAS to be doing something right.

I realize cutting off one's hand doesn't stop stealing. However, he won't be able to steal anything with his missing hand of mine while he's in jail. Putting thieves & other criminals in country club prisons isn't the answer due to the excessive costs associated with it. Even though I'm not a criminal, there isn't anyone out there paying my mortgage while I'm at work everyday. They SHOULD work for their expenses of living in jail also.

When someone does the crime, he is really asking the police to put him in jail. Otherwise, why is he stupid enough to do the crime?? ............see ya Mark

[Jeremy]

Putting thieves & other criminals in country club prisons isn't the answer due to the excessive costs associated with it. Even though I'm not a criminal, there isn't anyone out there paying my mortgage while I'm at work everyday. They SHOULD work for their expenses of living in jail also.

Now that I agree with that because it makes sense. One of the worst things I ever thought was that they lock up dead beat dad's and don't give them some kind of work program to work off their debt. Then the debt just keeps piling up during the months that they are locked up.

The problem is that they can offer work programs but they can't MAKE anyone work. Doing so would break anti-slavery laws. But I think there should be better work programs (at least voluntary ones) for nonviolent offenders, especially those who have a debt like child support to pay. A portion of the money they make can go towards living expenses and it would be nice for the inmate to have saved money waiting for their release so that they don't have to go back to a life of crime when they get out.

Also, it should be noted that most prisons have gone private. They are run now by for profit corporations who get a hefty check for each inmate. Profit is probably why there's no serious work for cash efforts. Doing so might limit how much the corporation who runs the prison makes.

[acoolmom777]

Stepping back and looking at these post, I seem to agree with a little of all of it…
I do believe the punishment should fit the crime, and I also think that jail should NOT be a place of relaxation. (so nice that it becomes a place to “take a break”).

Jeremy, I noticed to talk about the “non-violent drug offenders”, well you never said any thing about the “non-violent drug” that was peddled to the 19 yr old down the street, and his 9 year old brother got a hold of and over dosed on.

OR….

The “cruel and UNUSUAL punishment”….that was forced upon the mother and two daughters that were raped over and over in the middle of the night, by the person that knew if he got caught he would go to jail and get free food and a place to sleep. Makes me wonder if he would of “raped” again if he was in the “tuff” jail, knowing he still would get his 3 meals but would also get his “round” at night…hummmmmm????

Being a military brat myself, I have always thought that criminals had it a lot easier then our military men.

I do believe we should try and reform prisoners, if it is possible. I think there should be some type of “half way house” to get them ready to go back in society.

[kybikertrash]

I see a problem in America today especially with younger generations. People don't want to do any kind of hard work to earn a living. They want to sit back, draw welfare, and rob peoples homes to get their drug money.

That's why we have so many mexicans in this country. Who else is going to work in the tobacco fields? It's hot, it's dirty, and it's physical labor, and Americans don't want to do it. It's eaisier to go fill out some papers and get a check in the mail every month.

Maybe after a few months in this tent city these criminals will decide it's better to have a real job and make an honest living. Even the drug offenders are usually stealing from someone, which if caught in the act could become a violent act.

Being someone that has had a stranger try to carjack and abduct me, with the intent to rape, and has had a home invasion while my family slept, and had my business burgalized (BTW all of these offenders were "drug offenders"), I have no sympathy. These people who have committed crimes against me did not have violent criminal histories but there's a first time for everything!

I also don't think that living in a tent with no a/c and eating sandwiches, without cable and making these criminals do a hard days work is TORTURE! Maybe we should make the military review their ways.

I have two nephews in the service, one in IRAQ, and I think he may be being tortured by his own government. It's hot he works all day, he gets three maels a day, he lives in a tent, he also only gets to shower about once a week. I bet the tent city criminals get to shower more often than that.

I saw two stories on the news this past weekend about children being starved and tortured by their parents...three of them died. Five of them were still alive but had had their toenails pulled off with pliers as punishment and one of those five was 17 and only weighed 59lbs.. Now that's torture. I bet they would have been happy to live in a tent and get fed three times a day and only get to watch the Disney channel.

If these criminals want to change, they will. No amount of rehab will make them change. It's just like smoking or losing weight, you have to really want it for it to work.

[Jeremy]

All valid arguments, but it still doesn't change the fact that so-called "hard" jails and prisons don't do anything to deter crime because the person never actually thinks he will go to jail.

The one mention I read of any actual person wanting to go to jail...

...by the person that knew if he got caught he would go to jail and get free food and a place to sleep.

...just sounds like your average psycho. I mean his excuse for torturing those women loses it's credibility when you consider there are homeless shelters that provide the exact same thing. He's just a psycho nut job that wanted to be in the papers.

When I spoke of drug offenders I am not speaking of the sellers. I am speaking of the users who make up the majority of the system by either being there for using drugs or committing crimes to support their habbit. These fellas you could put in a 5 foot by 5 foot cell filled three feet full of cow dung in 200 degree heat, and they will still be addicted. It's a chemical addiction and no amount of work or punishment will change that.

My point is that someone who finds a cheap way to actually treat prisoners as mental patients should be worthy of praise. Simple run-of-the-mill turn-key punishers are not heroes, and nothing new, and solve nothing.

I would love for their to be no crime like the personal experiences mentioned here. I just think a torture camp, while deserved in some cases, doesn't help and actually adds to the problem.

[mark]

...........I'll tell you guys what. Here's a real example of a dude that NEEDS to be in the AZ. sheriff's tent jail. This couldn't have come at a better time for this thread.

Read link carefully:

http://www.700wlw.com/cc-common/feeds/view.php?feed_id=102&feed=/news.html&instance=1&article_id=14947

Here's a dude that raped a woman 6 years ago & went to prison for the crime. He was released ( rehabilitated??--Hmmmm..... ) back in November & less than 3 months later--he's at it again. He sweet talked two 17 yr. old girls to his apt. raping them with a knife as the weapon & then ran away. My friends, I'm talking less than 3 months & he's at it again!! In my opinion, he needs the pink boxers & a whole lot more time watching the Disney channel from a cold tent in HIS future.

I want to hear from the ladies on this forum, especially if you're 17 years old.

Should this dude go to the Az. tent jail for a looooong time or not??

Comments?? ....................see ya Mark

[Jeremy]

If he is raping 17 year old girls then the last thing he needs is the Disney channel which is full of young women at that age dressed in skimpy outfits. That doesn't make any sense. And obviously he needs a lot of mental health programming that the current system doesn't offer. Really he just needs to step off into the afterlife but in reality in another 6 years he'll be out doing it again if all he does is work a chain gang, live in desert heat, wear pink boxers, and watch what he probably considers porn on the Disney channel for six years. Dude needs some serious therapy, or a trip to the afterlife, whichever works. Since the law provides neither I don't have much hope.

[acoolmom777]

Personally I think he needs to be put in a 5 x 5 room with the Daddy’s of the two girls for say maybe 15 mins, with everyone’s backs turn.

[annieap]

For a repeat rapist?? Castrate first then take him to tent city.

[mark]

...........Donna, if he were in the room with me after my daughters were raped, it wouldn't even take 15 minutes !!

Another thought comes to mind afterreading Annie's post. Maybe we can fix him up with Lorena Bobbitt. That should stop that raping problem, once & for all! .................see ya Mark

[tkcomer]

Personally, I have no problem with the way the sheriff runs his jail. WHO they toss in his jail is something I have a problem with. A two-bit pothead who has nothing and owns nothing will get more time than a con artist with a Ponzi scheme that has swindled people out of thousands. Steal millions with a sham corporation and you may get 6 months in a “secluded” jail and then go home to your multi-million dollar home in Florida. Get caught selling some crack to a person and you will be in there 3 years. I have a problem with drug laws. We have loaded up our prisons with people addicted to drugs that the rapists and murderers get out early. We tried prohibition and it didn’t work. Now we have loaded the prisons up with non-violent drug users while we release the violent criminals to make room. This is crazy. And the states are having a horrible time finding the money to keep these people locked up. We are locking up the wrong ones. Get into a bar fight and you will get off with a stern warning. Get caught with a joint and you will spend 7 days in jail. Anybody else see a problem with that scenario?

[Jeremy]

I do.

[Eddie]

I don't think rehabilitation for criminals will come from any type of jail or program. I think the whole business of getting into the criminals minds and conviencing them that what they did was wrong is a bunch of crap and a waste of taxpayer money. They know what they did was wrong and they chose to do it not caring who they hurt. As far as the drug addict goes, no matter how big or small their addiction, their still breaking the law, and they should be treated the same.
I'm for the judge taking a belt to juvinile offenders who's parents are either too lazy or affraid to, running every prison and jail like the tent city, and matching the crime to the punishment.
If you steal you loose a hand, if you rape you're castrated, if you murder you're put to sleep. You want to see a real deterant to crime? put the punishments on TV, I bet the crime rates will drop then.

[tkcomer]

Well let’s just ban alcohol and tobacco. The 2 drugs that cause far more deaths, broken homes and crimes than all illegal drugs combined. Releasing a thief to make room for a pot smoker is not my idea of justice. Nor is giving a vandal probation and locking up a drunk a better idea. The wrong people are loading up our jails. Scoundrels go free while a law against a “certain” drug puts people in jail. Look at our own state. They pass a law against an open container of alcohol except in limos and tour buses. The type of transportation our elected leaders travel in. I still say locking up non-violent drug offenders is a bad idea. Unless you are willing to tell the politicians to “Raise my taxes to keep them in there.” And the funny thing is, it’s only the poor people that end in jail. Get a good lawyer and the charges are dropped. If you are charged at all. Makes me scoff at “Justice for all.”

[TheMan]

That's the american court system for you.. As flawed as it is, it's what we have.. and far better than most other countries.
And your right.. the pot smoker does get 7 days(usually serves two, and on the weekends), while the crack dealer gets 5 years and serves 6 months. A man makes an innocent mistake that claims the life of another human being in a fatal semi vs car wreck, he gets 10 years, but the convicted murders serves 4.. The american justice system is flawed, no doubts about that. But it takes far more than ranting about it to fix the problem. We all are talking about the problems here.. But whats the solution?

[mark]

........realizing this is going to be expensive, the courts should make it mandatory for ALL alcoholics, non violent criminals spend at least 30 days in jail. They would dry out some, possibly/probably lose their job & have some time to "think" about it. Probably won't help most of them because they won't change their ways.

These offenders KNOWS the risks when indulging in this type of behavior.

If you do the crime, you should do the time, period !! If it takes building more tent prisons with barbed wire & the piping in the Disney channel, then so be it.

At least they aren't committing the crime while they are in there..........see ya Mark

[TheMan]

I agree.. but given my view on the criminal justice system, that isnt saying much..

[mark]

...........you're right, my friend. It's as simple as following the money trail.
For example, do you think Michael Jackson will spend any time at the sheriff's tent jail??

I doubt it. Jacko thinks he's above the law. He paid the hush-hush $$ & got away with it back in 1993 & he probably will figure out a way to do it again.

He would fit right in at the sheriff's tent jail wearing those pink boxers, but you probably won't ever see that happen................see ya Mark

[tkcomer]

It’s not just the enormous drain on the legal system that drives me batty, it’s the enormous resources we waste having cops peeking into windows looking for this stuff. Because it’s AGAINST the law. Decriminalize the crime of mere possession. Make it a ticketable offense. That way we add money to the system and not drain it. That way, we can stick the crackhead who breaks into your house and sells your stuff at the pawnshop for a good 5 years because now we have room. Big cities spend big bucks on vice squads. Locking up people for possession, gambling, prostitution, and other “victimless crimes”. Cut those cops loose and let them go after the ganbangers, thieves and vandals that make working people’s lives miserable. And stick those people in jail for a long time. We lost our way a long time ago when they said you couldn’t just shoot someone stealing gas from your car. “As long as they mean you no harm, let them steal your stuff.” A pot smoker does not bother me. A lowlife stealing hubcaps needs gunned down. THAT would lower crime quicker than anything.

[TheMan]

The reason big cities, for that matter Maysville, don't have the overwhelming problem they used to have is because of vice.. With out control of the users, your reciprocal crimes, (ei.. Assaults, thefts, robberies and burglaries.) would rise beyond control. [ You said it your self when you said, " A crack head who breaks into your house and sells your stuff at the pawnshop.]
There is no such thing as "victimless" crimes. Gambling has it's own set of victims, as does prostitution. If there is no checks and balances for the "users" then the problem only worsens. By de-criminalizing "mere" possession would mean that an officer could not EVEN ticket for the offense. I agree, that the possession of marijuana should not be an arrestable offense, and at times it is not. If the situation warrants, an officer will actually ticket the offender and send them on their way. But, in Kentucky, officers are encouraged by the court system to arrest the users. Be it Marijuana, Meth or Crack users.

And although I agree with your last sentence, I tend to like the law and order side of the tracks. And I prefer, unless my family is in danger, to let the justice system take it's course.

[mark]

..........another method that would help deter crime is.............confiscate personal possessions criminals have, if they have anything. If they own a car, confiscate it. If they have a house, place a lien against it. Get 'em in the wallet legally wherever you can.

I know it's not that simple, but there would be some GREAT stuff to bid on at the police auctions! ..............see ya Mark

[TheMan]

There is a system such as that in place. But..... The court systems usually give the property back to the convicted. :(

[mark]

......that's where things are screwed up. confiscate it, then aucton it off! If the original owner wants it, he can bid like the rest of us.............see ya Mark

[tkcomer]

Confiscation of property? Punished twice for the same crime? The RICO act was created to break up the Mafia. It was expanded to go after drug kingpins. The trouble is, they are not getting the kingpins. But they are getting a lot of innocent people’s rental property. Who had no knowledge of any criminal activity and then have to spend thousands to get their property back. Now that’s justice. And let’s expand on this. Break the law, loose your possessions right? That’s what you are saying. Roll through that stop sign and lose your car. You broke the law. Drink a few beers and climb on your lawnmower, lose your house. That’s against the law in Kentucky. And because you did something stupid, your family gets thrown out on the street. You shouldn’t pass a law because you don’t like something. And I always get a laugh out of some hard-nosed politician whose family member gets caught with drugs. Or they themselves get caught. Why, it’s all about forgive and forget then. This is hypocrisy.

[mark]

...................when you put it like that, I'll have to agree with you because I understand how the law works. This is something I haven't given full thought to & you're awaken me. You got me on this one........

Yes, I can see the day where one can run thru a stoplight & yes, lose your car.

Freedoms are being taken away from us all the time & I can see this one getting out of control also.

Thanks for enlightening me................see ya Mark