Buy New Or Rebuild

[tkcomer]

Ok, here goes. Wife wants to put her computer back online and she wants Windows XP. What she has now is an old ‘puter with a 733 slot one Intel processor, 10 meg hardrive, 15 meg secondary hard drive, 24X cd-rw, Geforce 2 video card, and 258 megs of ram. I thought about rebuilding that one, but when you start buying parts, plus the cost of a copy of XP, now you are into spending not much less than if you bought one of the new cheaper PCs. She does very little with her ‘puter, but spends a lot of time online. Nothing she does (So far) is at all demanding with a ‘puter. Most ‘puters that I configure are in the 500 dollar range. If I rebuild, it looks like I’m pushing the 400 dollar mark. Plus, if I rebuild, I would have to do a lot of studying to make sure I bought the right stuff. What would you do?

[kcredden]

I'd definately build TK, but only because I can get exactly what I want. When you buy a pre-made system, chances are it's with XP Home, which is a headache because of having the activation thing. Better to go with XP Pro.

Another problem, and why I prefer to build my own, is that you do not get a install CD of XP, but a 'recovery disk' Another BIG headache. With that, you put it in the drive, and there goes all your stuff you wanted to keep, as it reformats and reinstalls itself. I'm not sure about if you get new hardware or not, what it'd do then. But experience shows, recovery disks are nothing but headaches. Better to get a cheap legal copy of XP Pro off E-bay.

To run XP Pro well, I'd recommend at least 1 ghz machine, 5 gigs minimum HD space for the OS/Applications, and 256 megs memory. (What my cousion has) After that, it's just gravy. IF she's not a gamer, that setup will be find for most work.

Good luck!

[Jeremy]

My vote is to keep the existing one and up the memory to 512 if you can. Especially if she doesn't do much with it except surf the Internet. If you really want a new computer and use XP and all that, then my vote is to buy one. I would suggest building one if you were intending it for a special purpose like gaming or video editing in which case building will save you a lot of money. But, if it's just for surfing the web and sending emails, you can get a really decent computer for under $500. Other benefits is that you get to share the responsibility for making sure it works with a tech support/warranty team, for at least a year (Dell even comes out to your house when there's trouble). Also (and I know others might disagree with me), if you are going to buy, buy refurbished. They are significantly cheaper and most of the bugs in it have already been fixed. Every refurbished computer I own is still running *knock on wood* while the brand new ones crap out just about the time the warranty expires.

[tkcomer]

Friends have told me I need at least 1.0 and 512 megs of ram to run XP. I have been through power supplies that crapped out, motherboards (Asus at that) that gave up the ghosts, CD-ROM’s that have quit. Even floppy drives that have stopped working. I know that does not guarantee reliability, but I question putting 4 year old parts back in a ‘puter. But I could build a better ‘puter cheaper. I’m just not sure if the old parts would last. And believe me, she wants a reliable computer. But then again, it was her computer that saved me when mine would not boot up. I pulled my hard drive, plugged it in to hers, and saved my stuff to her CD-RW. On another note, Kevin, why do you like XP pro so much better? XP home has served me well. Just thought I’d ask.

[Chuck]

XP Pro over Home FAQ

If you have more than 5 PC's on the same network you need XP Pro.
Print Server you need XP Pro
Web Server

See the pattern,,, LOL Home is fine for most home users. XP Home will serve you fine.

Honestly Tim I cannot tell any speed differences from an 800 MHz to a 1.2 MHz CPU. I really agree with Jeremy to just dump 512meg into it and I bet your wife will be happy.

CD Roms are cheap and as I always say "If it's working, run it till the smoke comes out" Or the speed is too unbearable.

Less n ya just want to buy her a new puter,

[kcredden]

I tend to agree with you here, Jeremy. I'm planning on a laptop, and most probably it'd be a refurbished/manufactored one. I don't need the fastest, battery eating model out now. I just need something to run XP Pro, and what I use now, which is about 1 ghz. So for about $700 I can get a good Toshiba. When I went past 1 ghz, I haven't needed huge amounts of speed, except for 1 thing; Flight Simulator.

Also (and I know others might disagree with me), if you are going to buy, buy refurbished. They are significantly cheaper and most of the bugs in it have already been fixed. Every refurbished computer I own is still running *knock on wood* while the brand new ones crap out just about the time the warranty expires.

TK:

Yes, I'd agree, 1ghz, and 512 megs. That's what I have on my duel processor machine I'm using now, and it purrs like a kitten. (BTW I only have one processor in mine. I kept the 2nd socket free, incase I wanted to boost the power later, instead of buying a whole new motherboard. This board can handle up to 5 ghz.)

As for older parts, I'd only do that with solid state parts. (IE: Nothing moving) I've got a video card I bought off a friend about 7 years ago. it works just fine. (Old Nvida TNT 16 meg). But the harddrives are only 2 years old.

Why do I like XP Pro over Home? Just because of the activaction feature in Home. The threat of it stop working, if I bought a new system or new part(s), and it thinks I'm installing it on another computer. I rather just type in a long serial number and install it. Also I think I remember that Home only allows you a certain number of installs before you have to beg MS for another number. I've yet to find a Windows that doesn't need to be reinstalled more than once a year. :). I will say this. I'd recommend XP any over any Windows anymore. It's incredibly stable.

Oh I should recommend, TK. Buy 2 HDs, at least of the same size. Use the 2nd as a backup system, for nothing is 100% reliable. But HDs are your best short term storage units. It's nice too, incase of problems of the first HD, and have to reinstall everything, you don't loose everything. (Spoken from experience, 80 gigs *poof*)

Friends have told me I need at least 1.0 and 512 megs of ram to run XP. I have been through power supplies that crapped out, motherboards (Asus at that) that gave up the ghosts, CD-ROM’s that have quit. Even floppy drives that have stopped working. I know that does not guarantee reliability, but I question putting 4 year old parts back in a ‘puter. But I could build a better ‘puter cheaper. I’m just not sure if the old parts would last. And believe me, she wants a reliable computer. But then again, it was her computer that saved me when mine would not boot up. I pulled my hard drive, plugged it in to hers, and saved my stuff to her CD-RW. On another note, Kevin, why do you like XP pro so much better? XP home has served me well. Just thought I’d ask.

Well I recommend 1 ghz only cause I had that sort of experience. But memory is critical. The more, the better, and the more stable the OS is (Learned that from 98)

[laughs] Your statement of I always say "If it's working, run it till the smoke comes out" Or the speed is too unbearable. sounds like me. I run my machines till they die, or the casing breaks. (My 386/25 laptop just died last year when the case cracked :) I used it till then.)


Honestly Tim I cannot tell any speed differences from an 800 MHz to a 1.2 MHz CPU. I really agree with Jeremy to just dump 512meg into it and I bet your wife will be happy.

CD Roms are cheap and as I always say "If it's working, run it till the smoke comes out" Or the speed is too unbearable.

Less n ya just want to buy her a new puter,

[Chuck]

XP Home and XP Pro are identical in respect on a 5 system or less home network. The both require Microsoft Activation from the same website. I know of no known Activation problems with XP Home.

Now the reason I say the 733 is fine because he has one in hand that is working. Why fork out extra cash on something you are not going to see a speed difference.

512 meg with 32 meg video with surf fine. 64 meg video is better no doubt.

However on this system I would only run 98se or ME. XP's only problem is it is being picked on by hackers and viruses. If 98 was still big it would be the most picked on.

What I always find funny is when anyone ever posts a "What's Best" thread on any board the many different opinions.

If you start with what you got and make it work, you can always spend money later to make it faster if it needs it.

I have 2 PC's at Wired Willy's Coffee Shop in the K-Mart Plaza. Both are 800mhz or less with 64 meg of memory running Windows ME. Their only job is to Surf the Net, Check Email and Instant Messaging. They do this rather well.

They get allot of trash on them but then they have a different user all the time on them. They get the worse the Web has to offer.

[tkcomer]

Well, you had to mention refurbished. I have been studying and figuring parts and pieces for hours. Now I have been looking at refurbished and settled in on this model: http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1076884&Sku=E400-T2896 Does this look like a good deal? Power supply is a little low, but with the onboard audio and video, it might suffice. I know it’s a Celeron, but she won’t notice that. And I know it has a restore CD. I keep wondering what’s on that. What’s the best way to partition this hard drive? I’m not sure what motherboard is in it, or even if it is a standard size ATX, but if the motherboard holds up, I should be able to fix anything else that goes mechanically wrong with it. XP is so plug and play. Upgrading the other would be a hassle. It’s an old slot one and she really wants XP. And I want that old case. The case on this new (Almost 3 years old) one is crap.

[kcredden]

TK:

I tend to agree, 150w power supply seems a bit underpowered. I've heard that you can overload a power supply, if it's not big enough. But I never done such, so I can't really say here. Chuck? Jeremy?

Price, speed, memory and hard drive seems more than reasonable however. Partition? Boy you don't hear people asking about that often :). I always do this sort of partition:

c: drive. 5 gigs
d: drive: 1 gig (for temporary drive, and the swap file)
e: work drive: 3 gigs: for working on web sites, mail, word processing, and other 'work' stuff, allowing easy backup.
f: remaining harddrive, for storage of things that doesn't need backed up after an initial backup (like MP3s, videos, program masters.)

Of course, the size you pick depends on how you use it. This is my current config, which the C: drive has expanded in the last year to 5 gigs.

One of the reason for the C: drive, is that if I need to reinstall windows and/programs, I can format C: and reinstall Windows and the programs, without danger of loosing all my other stuff. However I don't know if this will work with a recovery disk. I never used one in this format before.

Well, you had to mention refurbished. I have been studying and figuring parts and pieces for hours. Now I have been looking at refurbished and settled in on this model: http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1076884&Sku=E400-T2896 Does this look like a good deal? Power supply is a little low, but with the onboard audio and video, it might suffice. I know it’s a Celeron, but she won’t notice that. And I know it has a restore CD. I keep wondering what’s on that. What’s the best way to partition this hard drive? I’m not sure what motherboard is in it, or even if it is a standard size ATX, but if the motherboard holds up, I should be able to fix anything else that goes mechanically wrong with it. XP is so plug and play. Upgrading the other would be a hassle. It’s an old slot one and she really wants XP. And I want that old case. The case on this new (Almost 3 years old) one is crap.

Uh..Chuck, what version of XP Pro do you have? I've got a pre-SP1 XP Pro, and all I do is type in a long serial number to 'activate' it. I never have to go to MS's web site, and it's been though 2 different computers. (Both mine, I burned out my first MB) They may have fixed that activation feature in home due to the controversity. Which sounds right, companies do do things without telling people.

The only problem I have with 98se or Me is the incredible instablity. I went though several years of 98's instability, even after much tinkering to improve it's stability. XP was such a relief. I could accually USE it, without constent blue screens.

BTW what's your experience been with XP on a 128 meg/500 mhz machine? CAn it run?

The both require Microsoft Activation from the same website. I know of no known Activation problems with XP Home.

However on this system I would only run 98se or ME. XP's only problem is it is being picked on by hackers and viruses. If 98 was still big it would be the most picked on.

[tkcomer]

After I typed that first post I got to thinking. With a recovery disk, it would probably wipe out any partition I put in it. I always think of the worst. I just thought she could put pics and stuff on the other partition and if something went wrong, just redo the “C” partition. I used to do that on my old ‘puter. Her machine has a 250 watt power supply if the 150 watt causes trouble. At first she told me to build one for myself and give her the one I’m using now. But I want to wait until this video stuff gets a little bit better, then I’ll build a media center. I’m going to try to capture movies off of the satellite dish. So far, the TV cards aren’t up to snuff, but they are getting better.

[Daphne]

Most of the restore cd's let you pick the partition if reinstalling or formatting with Windows XP. I have also found that most of the times that all the restore cd's are good for is the drivers or any additional software that the customer may want reinstalled. You can always use an XP CD to install windows XP and then get the drivers off the restore cd's.

[tkcomer]

OK, if I get this ‘puter, is there a way to partition after XP is installed? I’m going to assume the computer is going to come preloaded with all the software installed. Or do I need a program to do it? Any freebies out there?

[kcredden]

TK:

You can repartition it, after XP is installed. Partition Manager, Magic and commander are three I can think of, of course commerical.

You can use Fdisk, and I found a great tutoral on how to use it at: http://fdisk.radified.com/

However, I'd recommend FreeDOS's Fdisk program. It's very simlar to Fdisk, but has better features, doesn't do a version check like MS" dos programs, and best of all. No 'integraty check' that FDISK has to do everytime you use it, or any command. On huge harddrives, that can take awile, and not necessary. Try it here: http://www.freedos.org/freedos/software/lsm.cgi?q=f&a=base/fdisk.lsm

There is one undisclosed command on MS's FDISK, "Fdisk /MBR" will wipe your partition tables clean for a totally clean restart. Good thing to know.

I couldn't find any freeware partition manager like program however. Maybe Chuck or Jeremy can help you here?

One thing. Be careful with any partitioning software. I goofed up my system once with partition manager, and only fdisk /MBR could fix it. I did something to the partition tables, and lost about 80 gigs of stuff. All archived on CDs, but it'd take months to bring that all back.

Good luck!

OK, if I get this ‘puter, is there a way to partition after XP is installed? I’m going to assume the computer is going to come preloaded with all the software installed. Or do I need a program to do it? Any freebies out there?

[tkcomer]

Wow. That one had more warnings than a can of bug spray. I might try to snag a program off of E-bay. I might be able to get one for less than 20 dollars. But then again, if I can keep my mitts off of her computer, she probably won’t have any problems. As long as she has a good up-to-date virus protection. She is on those Family Treemaker boards. When one gets a virus, it gets sent to everybody.